I didn't see a topic for this yet, so figured I would make one. Dave asked in the latest newsletter what everyone's opinion is on a HUD for PWX, since there will be the option of hiding the HUD or displaying it.
I think the most important thing is to not make it distracting. I can't stand wrestling games that have flashy, obtrusive HUDs. Day of Reckoning comes to mind.
The AKI series had a very simple HUD for the spirit meter. I like how in Smackdown Vs Raw 2011, the health meter follows your character on screen, this makes it easier to distinguish which health bar goes to which character, especially when you have multiple characters on screen at once.
I don't think that there should be a HUD for body parts. Animations should give a general idea of where and to what degree the opponent is injured. Part of the game strategy should be trying to figure out just how injured your opponent is.
It would also be nice to have an option to display the match duration on screen or hide it. I like how in VPW2, you are notified of the time in increments. Maybe have a nice animation pop up in the corner to highlight the time when it reaches every 5 or 10 min increment (of course we should have the option to turn this off as well). Maybe we should be able to choose the increment as well.
I like the idea of having the HUD follow the player. I like it below the player on the floor/mat. Also I like having the health be a color change rather than a meter dropping.
But I really don't know what else to recommend because I barely have an idea of how the health system for the game will be like. Is it purely a health/spirit bar and limb damage? I was kinda hoping for more stats to keep an eye on.
Thanks for starting the topic, trash! I'm glad to see the topic already has some solid discussion going. Thanks!
We'll probably start with just one basic HUD, a set of meters in the corners of the screen. Then what I'd like to do is explore the idea of giving you guys options like the ones you suggested; HUD follows player for example. I believe the main goal here is to not just pick one HUD idea but give you guys as many options as we can. Even the option of actual meters, digital counters, and graphical representations (good old stick man pose).
The time counter should have similar options to hide/show/position. And I'm a total fan of calling out time passed. Great idea!
@ CaMacKid: Uprising will have a very basic system of overall health/spirit. We really want to start simple and totally get it solid before adding additional elements like breath, stamina, honor, or whatever else people can dream up to make the game more authentic and especially fun.
Thanks again guys. Keep the ideas coming! I'm supposed to let the programmer know this weekend what you guys prefer.
What do you think about a combination? A bar or circle icon for overall health combined with color coded body parts for limb damage? Admittedly that would be right in DoR2 territory.
I have been gaming for twenty years, and I have played every wrestling game that’s been on the market. Thus, I’m old enough to articulately critique the evolution of wrestling games and specifically point out when they started to improve and when they began to decline in quality. Overall, I put sincere thought into this response so please hear me out.
If a HUB bar indicates damage, and the standing character model also reflects damaged sustained, why do you need to include both features which ultimately tell you the same information? Especially considering that one of those features, the HUB bar, is often a horrible and obnoxious distraction. Whereas the other feature, standing character models that reflect pain by holding onto a body part, entices the player to stay competitive, and provides a sense of realism. Even if you have the ability to turn it off, the concept should be omitted entirely.
Keep it simple. The absolute beauty of Fire Pro Wrestling Returns (the best wrestling game in North American … Next to No Mercy) is that matches are treated simply. Fire Pro Wrestling doesn’t have a flashy indicator bar with arbitrary icons to fill up, but rather the character model reflects a loss of spirit, and will also indicate damage when it becomes excessive. (Although, characters in No Mercy do a better job at selling injuries) Thus, the character models, as in real life wrestling, should be telling the story, not a HUB bar.
Consider your audience. The gamers purchasing Pro Wrestling X are going to be fans of professional wrestling in general, so they will already know what moves affect which parts of the body. Moreover, a match generally last five to ten minutes, and during that time I know what has transpired. I know when a pin attempt or submission will likely be successful. Again, the beauty of Fire Pro is that it’s about reading the match to discern this, a HUB bar takes the player out of the experience.
Please don’t include a HUD bar; your audience doesn’t need it. The game will benefit from simplicity in this respect, and as a result your players will find themselves more immersed in the experience. Playing great wrestling games I find myself enjoying the experience regardless of a win or loss, because the match was satisfying and spectacular. This is what I enjoy in any real life match, but admittedly the trick is to translate that feeling into a game.
I can only echo the perspicacious comments of Chuckyb618. The posture of a wrestler's model and gait should be quite sufficient for conveying their bodily condition. I'm not averse to the inclusion of an optional HUD, though the efforts of the animators should ensure its superfluity.
I'm in complete agreement with the anti-HUD (Heads Up Display) posters. I always turn off meters and HUDs when I can. My goal with PWX is to give people as much freedom as I can even if I personally disagree with what the options could potentially produce. I believe one of the main reasons to even have an optional HUD system in place is for those modders who want to emulate classic older wrestling games and wish to mod the HUD graphics to accomplish that.
Also, for PWX to become an ongoing concern requires that we convert more wrestling gamers into PWX gamers and if that means giving them an initial experience that feels familiar to them visually (HUD) then it's my responsibility to offer that option.
My anti-HUD stance has been in place since our very earliest designs and it's the reason we animated a bunch of different idle and walking animations that hint at different limb damage.
My main message to all of our hardcore supporters with respect to the HUD stuff is that WE DON'T HAVE TO TURN IT ON WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I think that about Settles it. As long as the animations will properly indicate health/location damage (which according to Dave it will), then the option to turn the HUD on or off should work.
For that matter, you should make the HUD give as much detail as possible, especially if it can be used for modders. Maybe have the option to turn on and off different sections of the HUD. For example, keep the overall health bar but hide the limb-damage "puppet", etc.
I think a miniature version of your character selling his wounds in the corner would be cool.
Just very small. If he has a bum leg he is leaning, 2 bum legs on his knees, holds his arm for one bad one, both for 2, curled in a ball if everything is etc etc. It would be different and let you know how he is. If he is having his 'special' moment he could kind of flex and look powered up.
@ thrash: I just confirmed a few minutes ago that each element of the HUD may be turned on and off separately in the options menu.
@ sirdingus: Animated mini versions of your character icon sounds cool but that would mean more work and more animators. Maybe a cool idea to explore after Uprising. I always liked the different facial expressions in the original Doom HUD so I'd be totally willing to take a crack at it.
I'm with Zin5ki, thrash, and the boys. Do what you gotta do for business and marketing as long as us nerds can turn it all off and game like real men. No meters, and no running from Specials.
What about working limb damage into commentary when you get that working?
"Tirador is favoring his ankle after that submission attempt."
"Dane can barely stand up straight after that rib breaker."
I think there were some of the older NES and SNES wrestling games that had a dedicated portion of screen for HUD info, and then the entire rest fo the screen was for action.
Tecmo World Wrestling (NES) and Hammerlock Wrestling (SNES) and Bishoujo Wrestlinger's History: Blizzard Yuuki (SNES JP) definitely had 'em, and it mostly worked.
@fullMETAL: Tecmo World Wrestling was fun with that written commentary. Makes you wonder how hard that would be to hack into something like Uprising if it was as simple as tagging certain moves/actions/conditions with a string of text. Can you imagine the fun commentary the community could come up with!
@sirdingus: Heart monitor is cool. Why does it sound familiar?!
honestly one area smackdown 2010 and 2011 do right is the health bar if you ask me. its not distracting. its small. its there mostly really to tell you you have a special. honestly if they got rid of the halo ring completely and just popped an S and an F for when neccessary itd be perfect. of course if that game could sell damage and let me know im beat up that would help quite a bit as well.
this said i think the health bar is dependent on what specials are in the game. is it a flashing F or something to let me know i have a finisher? if so some kind of on screen cue is neccessary. ultimately though i think wrestlemania 18 had the right idea. build a special store it up to 5 and can do it at anytime. so i dont see a huge reason to reinvent the whell when we can just perfect an already existing idea.