Looked around and didn't see it asked...but....what kinds of finishers will we see (or are expecting to see) in the game? Will we see moves from all over the world(like KENTA's "Go2Sleep", Kobayashi's "Burning Hammer", and luchadore finishers for example?)
The reason I ask is because in other games, my main peave has always been that they have at least two or three never-before-seen moves, and two-or-three "killer" moves, while the rest are just tacked on from what we see every day(The Rock Bottom's been done to death by now.... :( )
Also, what animation style are you going for for the moves? If you could compare it with what we've seen in recent wrestling/fighting games, which one could you compare it to?
The only thing I wish for PWX's finisher system is to have Smackdown's execution and Fire Pro's philosophy. Meaning, easy one button, non-grapple execution, with anytime, anywhere, yet right time philosophy so that you have actually think about when to use it. Also, desperation finishers are a must!!!!
In a way, I feel that DoR gets it right with momentum specials: I mean think about it - you're down on your luck, last hint of stamina, and the other guy has his bar FULL and you're there with next to nothing....what d'ya do? your special, and hope it connects, because if doesn't, his counter attack'll hit you double....and near defeat.
But mainly, I wanted to know what kinds of finishers will be included in the game?
Well, one button function for all grapples would severly limit the number of moves you can have, and that would mean having very short matches or very boring repetitive matches.
OK. If there were two buttons plus the directional pad used for non-striking grapple moves, then (if you include all combinations including pressing both buttons simultaneously) 14 moves are possible (15 minus one for a simple collar/elbow tieup). If that is not enough, then additional moves could be available if such buttons and combinations are held down instead of just pressed. Irish whips could be performed similarly if one of the buttons is pressed at the same time as the run button.
That can get complicated to remember, I'm especially fond of having 4 categories that you can put moves into, similar to smakcdown, but unlike smackdown don't force the user to keep all moves in one direction part of the same category.. let them work their own systems out that is comfortable for them.
I like having finishers restricted and tied to momentum. I've found that in Fire Pro, it's too easy to slip into a pattern of doing a finisher 2 or 3 times to end a match, since you can just pull them out anytime you want once the opponent is beat up a bit. The problem is you diminish the perceived strength of the move when you see it this many times in a match.
Having it tied to momentum makes the most sense to me, since it fits in with how real matches flow. But perhaps instead of it being individual momentum, it could be overall match momentum.. like, if the crowd is really into the match, ANYONE can use their finisher, but if there's no heat, nobody can. Just an idea :)
Standardizing you own move layouts is possible in the system I just described. As for issues of complication, it's true that there may be a bit of a steep learning curve, but I've always been under the impression that PWX was intended to play like a simulation instead of an arcade game.
I'm afraid I don't see how button combinations lend themselves to a more simulation feel.. I've encountered button combinations in more fighting games than simulator games. It just seems to me like it would cut down the number of moves you could have (there are 25 with the 'smackdown' system), and make it harder to play and thus less fun.. That's not to say it couldn't be fun, but I think I'm not alone in my desire to be able to get into a game quickly without much hassle :)
Not that I expect this conversation to have any effect on the development at this point, I'd imagine they're pretty definitive on however they're doing grapples by now, but it's a good debate ;)
That's the problem. The grappling system they've already chosen will resemble that of no mercy. Good news to some, bad news to others. In order to increase the number of moves available to the players, EVERY move must start with a collar & elbow. The gameplay is easy to pick up, and plenty of moves can be performed, but the cost of that is the realism of every single move performed; the same animation has to be seen a good twenty times more than it would be in a real match. This is why I want quick grapple moves, and simultaneous button presses seem to be the best way to bump up the number of available moves in such a system. During a gamingring interview, (http://gamingring.com/grdesign/displaynewshere.php?subaction=showfull&id=1177995270&archive=&start_f) Dave even admitted that quick grapples were more realistic, but said that the AKI system was better because it was "the most fun and least prone to cheap abuse by an opponent". Although these points are true, since they are optimizing the game to play like existing titles, in which a simple system gives an enjoyable experience at the expense of the realism, this game seems to be being produced for "wrestling gaming fans" instead of wrestling fans in general. Since the ball has already started rolling in a direction I (and perhaps I alone) consider unfavorable, I am having doubts of whether or not I actually want to play this game when it is finished.
The game has always and will always be produced for wrestling gaming fans instead of wrestling fans in general, thats the whole point of WGU. If you want a match that looks prettier when simmed, maybe this isn't the game for you, personally I'm after a great game thats actually fun to play.
All I can ask is that you give the free demo a try when it becomes available and see how it plays. If the vast majority of people think our grapple system stinks we'll change it. We're easy that way ;-)
It's probably a good time to point out our design philosophy again so people know well ahead of time what our priorities are:
1. Make it work 2. Make it work well 3. Make it pretty
And on a related train of thought:
1. It has to be more fun to play than to watch 2. It has to be more fun to play than to mod 3. It has to be more fun than Nitro (baby steps...)
Here's a modification of a great grapple idea that was used in SmackDOWN! SYM that THQ abandoned way too quickly afterwards:
Quick Grapple (regular 4-direction Grapple) Tie-Up Grapple (collar-and-elbow tie-up by pressing Grapple with no direction, then 4-direction Grapple, with no-direction button press executing an Irish Whip) "Groggy" Grapple (4-direction Grapple executed when opponent is Groggy or Hunched Over, with no-direction button press doing the Irish Whip)
This 3-tiered grapple system can be used in almost ANY situation involving grapples!