I don't know...maybe this is just a dream game and this is just the mechanics...but a few years ago it seemed like a reality. I believe that every move should be able to be reversed and not into like a simple punch or kick. I think reversals should be specific to a wrestler type similiar to Day of Reckoning or one step further wrestler-specific reversals. This would be an example of wrestler types...Like if you were to go for a suplex a guy who was a super heavy weight would kinda toss you somewhat across the ring based on your weight class or a guy that was a light-heavyweight might hop over you. The reversals in the smackdown series are so generic and simplistic...like an elbow or a kick. Now when I say wrestler a wrestler would be able to reverse a move and then somehow incorporate one of their signature moves or finisher moves into it. Like in this match I was watching on Superstars Carlito flipped over the ropes and over Charlie Haas or Shelton Benjamin and then went write into the back-stabber. Another specific reversal is when someone rolls jericho up he reverses and goes into the walls of Jericho. Also you should be able to reverse a finisher into your own finisher. The best way I can describe this is older matches was when the rock went for a rock bottom and stone cold blocked it and spun him around into a stunner. I would also like to be able to reverse finishers or be able to counter them...i.e. Going for the figure four countered into a small package. Also after the figure four is applied you should have the ability to turn it over. Moves on the ropes should be countered mid-move....i.e. superplexes...you block a superplex and then try to punch your opponent off of the ropes to set up a top rope maneuver or reverse it into a different type of superplex or finisher of your own with your opponent facing forward. A move that I can think of that follows this model is the reverse sit-down superplex that Jeff Hardy does but in this case it would be off the ropes, but I am sure there are others. continued on next post
Another thing that can be reversed and maybe turned into a mini-game are pinfalls...when you have two very gifted mat-technicians you would go from a sunset flip to a jacknife pin back and forth I am sure there are other forms of pins that i can't recall at the moment Shawn Michaels is really good at this...and some even lead to a bridge out and then into a back-slide...and of course there should always be an option if you are near it to put your foot on the ropes to stop the pin count or use it for leverage if you are trying to pin or go for a submission. A couple of other non-reversal issues would be to make sure that there is weight-detection and make sure that super-light weights and light-weights can NOT pick up any Super-heavyweight wrestlers and even the heavy weights have to severely struggle to pick up super-heavy weights or not at all. After failing to do so...that wrestler would be in a weakened state and more vulnerable to an attack. This should affect all moves. Strikes from Super-Lightweights and Lightweights should also have their strikes have much lesser impact and when they are doing a flying manneuver such as a flying body press or other moves they should be able to catch them as a possible reversal...hmm...I guess that is a reversal...lol. Also you should be able to do a Finisher at any time in a match...especially if you are facing someone that is way below your level...I think that a jobber or mid-carder should find it to be almost impossible to beat a Main-Eventer unless they are giving him a push or he is distracted by one of his Enemies...Also there should be ways to link moves together and not like automatically animated. There should be options. For Instance Go for an arm- wringer into a hammer lock or instead into an arm bar. The basic moves can easily be linked together and have a few options. Finally...wrestlers should not stand up after doing every move. There should be a button to press to stand up...then after you have finished a move you are on the ground and based on how close you are you should crawl over and go for the pin...and based on your energy level you may just be able to put one arm over your opponents body. In every single wrestling game the wrestler stands up and then goes for the pin and I have played alot since the early 80's till today. In what wrestling match do you see a guy stand up after he has just done a move and then go for the pin. This has bothered me FOREVER. Okay, I don't know how the energy levels would work, but they should be based on common sense rules and as I stated earlier they should be affected by the level of the wrestler that you are controlling. Now instead of focusing on the bit-rate and trying to make an exact replica...which they never do...they always beef up all the guys. Every guy except the super-heavy-weights don't even come close to the actual body-likeness. They went so a** backwards on this. They did not focus on gameplay and reality of matches. They went for really pretty packaging but nothing but a pair of old socks in the box. We are in the 5th generation of systems and they were getting so close with No Mercy and Day of Reckoning which focused on getting the gameplay right. What is the point of having "real" looking wrestlers that don't ACT like REAL wrestlers. I guess this is a dream-concept. I think it is possible, but they have dropped the ball so much that it seems like they are so far from the goal line.
Chain wrestling is something I've hoped for as well. One thing I've suggested in the past is using existing MMA games as an influence, not for the holds themselves (for mount positions and hammerlocks are different things entirely), but for how the gameplay would handle the chains and reversals.
Being able to stay on the mat in order to quickly go for the pin is another thing I'm hoping for. To his credit, Mdickie got around this problem with the crawl feature in his games.
The more reversals in the game, the better. Especially from major positions such as finishers. Being able to see Muta spitting mist to reverse a hold would be exquisite.
[quote][cite] Xarmark77:[/cite]...What is the point of having "real" looking wrestlers that don't ACT like REAL wrestlers. I guess this is a dream-concept. I think it is possible, but they have dropped the ball so much that it seems like they are so far from the goal line...[/quote]
Welcome to the community, great post! I also agree with the above sentiment. But seeing these issues from the point of view of actually trying to produce them I can understand why we don't have that big-bad-dream wrestling game just yet. Time, money, and risk.
A lot of people point out that crawling mechanic from Mat Dickie's games and I agree. Cool idea. Wish he had taken it further.
Speaking of MMA, I'm finding myself aching for a hybrid game more and more. I got some UWFi DVDs yesterday (finally), and I'm blown away by the combination of MMA and pro wrestling. It looks so real, yet has more variety than true MMA. Imagine if you could do boston crabs and German suplexes and Vaderbombs in MMA - that's UWFi.
KOC2 probably does this hybrid style the best of any wrestling game, but there's so much room for improvement. Just another angle to think about, Dave :-)
I don't wish to propose a hybrid pro-wrestling/MMA game at the present; I am more interested with mimicking the gameplay revolving around certain MMA positions in KOC (to use one example out of several) for the use in a wrestling game.
By this I mean considering the way one player has the ability to execute a number of moves from a Mount Position in KOC MMA matches, and using mechanics akin to this to implement an armwrench or headlock resthold position into the wrestling gameplay: certain buttons chain the position into certain moves, whilst the opponent must time their reversal attempt in order to either get out of the hold or apply one of their own.
This way such positions remain useful to the game, the choice of moves resulting from them preventing such mechanics from becoming arbitrary. These are just my ideas, however.