Remember the striking combo system from the old AKI WCW games? One of the crew is pushing really hard for a similar system in PWX. But does anyone want to see striking combos make a return to wrestling games?
Getting rid of those was such a bad idea for AKI. I mean, I'll put it this way, Yukes kinda brought it back (not as deep) and it was a good idea.
Of course it is a good idea for you guys to have that. The AKI games afterward really lacked the balance of the original ones, why? Because some guys would just have too many grapples. If you want to be 'fair' you'd strip some grapples out by just duping them, but really, you can't lose with this.
I honestly didn't have a ton of fun with it either but I think it's worth exploring. Spunk, can you refresh my memory and explain the AKI striking combos again? If I remember correctly, you could repeatedly strike a stunned opponent and all they could do was attempt a block or counter, correct?
I think it's worth exploring. Some might like it, Some might not. But it's cool to watch. I do know that some wrestlers do have real life combos like Dr. Death Steve Williams (was in Giant Gram 2000) & Goldberg (AKi's WCW Vs. NWO Revenge).
I have that WCW Vs. NWO Revenge n64 cart to this day. Haven't played it in years.
Bought it used because my favorite wrestler Dr. Death is in that game as Jekel. Best wrestler in the whole damn entire game.
I'd like to see a combo system for both strikes and grapples. Add some chain wrestling to the mix as well. The problem I've seen with strike combos is that they tend to keep going through the motions even if the game has no reason to. For instance, I've had it happen to me quite a bit that I'll start a combo, and the victim will get knocked down on the first shot, then my wrestler would just keep punching or kicking until the combo got finished. As long as there's something in there to stop the combo if the victim is knocked down, I don't see any problem with it.
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]I honestly didn't have a ton of fun with it either but I think it's worth exploring. Spunk, can you refresh my memory and explain the AKI striking combos again? If I remember correctly, you could repeatedly strike a stunned opponent and all they could do was attempt a block or counter, correct?[/quote]
The amount of "meh" responses on here is either because people do not remember it correctly or are crazy. It would take up the whole "B" section of your strong grapple (thus the 'balance' that you had to give up 5 strong grapples to have this), you'd press B and you' push your opponent back. From there you hit any of the directions to do a different strike. There is a meter, and your average attack was 5 (?) strikes, in special it was 10. It was, in my opinion, the absolute way to go when it comes to grapple strike rushes. It lets you vary things up, as opposed to like Fire Pro, KOC, Smackdown, etc. (basically EVERY modern game).
So, say I'm playing as Nobuhiko Takada and want to do the Takada double high kick finish; I can grapple said dude, put it into combo mode, do a push kick, low kick, savate kick, right high kick and left high kick. If you play as Kawada, you can do a few short elbows, kesa giri chop, low kick, front high kick and ganmengiri. I mean it goes on and on. The best part is that you have options. If you don't want to finish the combo out with a strike, you can do a strong grapple at any time. With Kawada all the time I throw some elbows, a low kick, front high and then powerbomb them.
The only 'weakness' is that the opponent can only block, but honestly, if you do the moves in succession how is it any more unrealistic from pressing one button and entering into any of the above combos instead? It lets you vary your attacks, as well as let the opponent block a strike rush at any point! Plus, let's face it, this is a pro wrestling game, the striking system isn't going to be the best in the world. This is no diss, just some truth. Adding this means you can make competent kickboxers, MMA fighters, etc.
"The only 'weakness' is that the opponent can only block, but honestly, if you do the moves in succession how is it any more unrealistic from pressing one button and entering into any of the above combos instead? It lets you vary your attacks, as well as let the opponent block a strike rush at any point! Plus, let's face it, this is a pro wrestling game, the striking system isn't going to be the best in the world. This is no diss, just some truth. Adding this means you can make competent kickboxers, MMA fighters, etc."
First let me clarify what you are saying. Please correct me if i am wrong. What you're trying to say is that if you want to do a combo system you can manually do each move in succession as you want right? Okay i correct then this follows:
Alright i thought of this too BUT if you do moves in succession how is it any more unrealistic from pressing one button and entering into any of the of the above combos instead?
The DIFFERENCE here is if you are doing each move manually after the other the opponent can STOP you. If it's a true combo system they can ONLY BLOCK YOU.
I'm gonna go with throw it in, I loved that system.
It was great playing as Goldberg and beating the shit out of someone with punches and elbows. If you can include then by all means include it, not every wrestler uses or can even perform many grappling based moves.
Well i agree combo systems of some type should be included. I would also like to see chain wrestling but i don't know how far they can take that? Maybe they know what they are doing & how to get a good chain system going!
[quote][cite] Spunk:[/cite]The amount of "meh" responses on here is either because people do not remember it correctly or are crazy. It would take up the whole "B" section of your strong grapple (thus the 'balance' that you had to give up 5 strong grapples to have this), you'd press B and you' push your opponent back. From there you hit any of the directions to do a different strike. There is a meter, and your average attack was 5 (?) strikes, in special it was 10. It was, in my opinion, the absolute way to go when it comes to grapple strike rushes. It lets you vary things up, as opposed to like Fire Pro, KOC, Smackdown, etc. (basically EVERY modern game).
So, say I'm playing as Nobuhiko Takada and want to do the Takada double high kick finish; I can grapple said dude, put it into combo mode, do a push kick, low kick, savate kick, right high kick and left high kick. If you play as Kawada, you can do a few short elbows, kesa giri chop, low kick, front high kick and ganmengiri. I mean it goes on and on. The best part is that you have options. If you don't want to finish the combo out with a strike, you can do a strong grapple at any time. With Kawada all the time I throw some elbows, a low kick, front high and then powerbomb them.
The only 'weakness' is that the opponent can only block, but honestly, if you do the moves in succession how is it any more unrealistic from pressing one button and entering into any of the above combos instead? It lets you vary your attacks, as well as let the opponent block a strike rush at any point! Plus, let's face it, this is a pro wrestling game, the striking system isn't going to be the best in the world. This is no diss, just some truth. Adding this means you can make competent kickboxers, MMA fighters, etc.[/quote]
That's the one I was thinking of....now that my memory is properly refreshed...I'd like to see that style make a return.
[quote]Alright i thought of this too BUT if you do moves in succession how is it any more unrealistic from pressing one button and entering into any of the of the above combos instead?
The DIFFERENCE here is if you are doing each move manually after the other the opponent can STOP you. If it's a true combo system they can ONLY BLOCK YOU.[/quote]
Uhh, translation anybody? Are you saying you WANT them to be able to stop you? Or are you saying that in the AKI games they could only block the moves?
In the AKI games, certain strikes would only be blocked, while other moves could be countered, or the block would stop the combo.
You know, I rather like this idea, but I could see it not working for every character, so it should probably be optional.
In fact, what would be really cool is if you could choose between chain striking and chain wrestling for a given character. Dunno if you guys have any plans to do chain wrestling (I could see how it could get complicated in a hurry), but if you do, well...
"In the AKI games, certain strikes would only be blocked, while other moves could be countered, or the block would stop the combo."
Ooops sorry my correction. You're right about this. It's been a longgg time since i played Revenge. I just looked it up on the internet & yes you're right.
Honestly I don't remember this but it sounds cool. It sounds similar to Def Jam FFNY where certain kickboxers could throw strikes from the Thai clinch instead of grapples from the standard collar-and-elbow tie-up.
Excellent question Dave!!! I think some of these videos below might help us better remember some of the great past AKI games. The first 2 videos below are a example of the striking combo system.
WCW World Tour- Legend of Joe Bruiser (E1 - The Debut) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUPxRWqRlao
WCW NWO Revenge - corner combos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6B8p5Ir-7g&feature=related
WCW/nWo Revenge - N64 - Rey Mysterio Jr vs Chris Jericho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_G9mIO8Zvs
WCW/nWo Revenge - N64 - Ultimo Dragon vs Psychosis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ltuyNGa-Uk&feature=related
WCW vs NWO World Tour - counter video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co43oDGzEF0&feature=related
Eddie Guerrero vs. Ultimo Dragon WCW/NWO World Tour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfoyj34xq4
I think you should put the combo system in because it can result in deep gameplay and easy for people to pick up. This can also help out certain wrestlers seem diferent instead of being almost the same type of wrestler. This should be optional too.
I'm not too fussed about striking combos. As long as the number of rudimentary blows (forarms, elbows, open-handed strikes etc) available is high enough to fill the movesets of wrestlers who actually obeyed the old 'no fists, no toe-kicks' rule, then I'll be satisfied on such a front. [quote][cite] Spunk:[/cite]I see chain wrestling as WAY too complex to be able to pull off correctly.[/quote] Not necessarily. If you consider a few rudimentary positions (such as an armwrench, headlock, holding of the opponent's head/arm/leg when they're on the mat etc) and have several takedowns/holds that start and/or end from such positions as if they were grapple states, then an effective chain system could come into fruition. Taking it to the next level, numerous reversals from each of these positions would mean that the chains wouldn't be dominated by a single aggressor. It pains me to see games where you can perform a snapmare or armdrag, but cannot hold on to the opponent when they hit the mat. (In British rules, you'd have to wait for the opponent to get up by their own accord if you didn't keep hold of them, effectively requiring wrestlers to use some chaining skills to score pinfalls.)
ASPW3 had a chain system like that, but is that really chain wrestling if it is more or less a predetermined sequence that you have to tap a button here and there to change positions? It would be like those Shenmue QTE events. I don't mind, but think of the people that bitched about when Smackdown had stuff like that.
See, with chain wrestling I don't want to do it unless there is the opportunity for a unique reversal and more than one choice for the follow up move at every point in the chain. Otherwise it's just a long linear series of animations which doesn't serve much of a purpose. Now would anyone like to take a guess at how much it would cost to develop such a system to any degree of depth?
...so YAY for the striking combo feedback! At least that's something we can afford to look into. We've been talking about it at the studio since last year so it's on the drawing board. What form it will finally take will depend on feedback from early attempts though.
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]Now would anyone like to take a guess at how much it would cost to develop such a system to any degree of depth?[/quote] That's a slight change in stance compared to several months back. I guess you've been through quite a lot since then however.
[quote][cite] DarkOffspring:[/cite]How about a *shock of all shocks* option to dedicate a button to this? If not, it would just be a standard grapple button.[/quote] I'd find it more innovative and realistic to have said optional dedicated button handling them instead of a grapple slot. For balance however I'd hope that the initiating strikes are reversible.