New videos have been uploaded showing the grapple transition system in Uprising. We hope to expand on this system as soon as we can. The sky's the limit now that we have the core system working (chain wrestling?). I'm very proud of the way this turned out. Big props to the animation and programming crew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5IX0ZJgfto Holding the right shoulder button will transition directly from a front grapple position to a back grapple position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBYLtmSZBU Tapping instead of holding the right shoulder button will transition from a front grapple position to what we call a side grapple position. Fans of the Giant Gram 2000 game will be familiar with this mechanic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9IiTE1njVM By tapping and/or holding the shoulder buttons you can quickly switch back and forth between any grapple position you desire before executing a move. Awwww yeahhhhhh.
For the most part the grapple positions transition very smoothly from one to the next and the controls are very responsive. In the last video you can barely tell that it stops at the side grapple position before the button is tapped again and it switches to a back grapple. I'm very happy with this. There is a bit of snap in the back-to-side grapple animation that still needs some polish though. But it works. Wa-hey!
The grapple transitions looked natural enough. Nicely done.
Can't say the same for the backbreaker though. Looked like the other wrestler was sandbaggin' it since there didn't seem to be much lift. The pause at the backbreaking part makes the move look really awkward too. Having the black wrestler taking it and sort of slightly bounce off the knee and roll on to his stomach would make the move look much nicer.
Although this isn't the final or Uprising version, I hope that all the grapple initiation animations aren't the done-to-the-death "collar and elbow" setup all the time?
I couldn't disagree more I thought the backbreaker looked great as a quick weak grapple. i more impactful or flashier version of it would be nice as a strong grapple though. Transitons look great Im salivating at how impressive this game seems to be.
The first video looks good. The grapple is very natural. By the way, are we looking at the string grapple or the weak grapple? In any case, the tempo is very good. Looks like the opponent has enough time to recognize the grapple to reverse it, but not too much time. Nice balance. Really couldn't be more pleased.
Second video, is good but I definintely have an issue with it. It doesn't look natural - looks more robotic. I think I've figured out what I don't like about it. At around 2 seconds and then just before 3 seconds, the receiving wrestler comes to a COMPLETE stop. As if he got shot with an ice beam from sub-zero. I'd suggest using some type of constant motion when they get to the side grapple state. Like an idle animation until the user decides to do a move or to switch to another state. I know this would screw up the transition between states, but my guess is that it would be worth it. Even if it's simple breathing animation. I think the 2-second issue (where he's almost in an irish whip) is just a matter of the animation itself. Nothing is going to make this game look "indy-ish" more than robotic KOC-style stop and starts.
Third video. Wow. Very cool. That had to be some fun programming to give the user that much control! I can't wait to get a hold of that to try out the grapples. Now I will say, I have a hunch that it "feels" better than it looks when you're actually performing the moves. From a third person perspective (meaning someone else is in the room, not playing but watching) the movement really needs to look much more organic IMO. Again, it looks fun as hell that crapple control is something that will make this game much more thatn anything that's out there, however I counted 5 places in that video 3 where both wrestlers came to a complete frozen state.
I'm sorry to harshly criticise what you've been working on or sound like a broken record, but looking at this footage it doesn't look flowing or realistic at all. The transitions may "feel" nice but it seems unintuitive to have to hold your opponent in a way that needn't necessarily precede the move you intend to perform. In fairness however it has been said several times that there were going to be collar/elbow tieups before all front moves. All I can request at this time is that you consider an animation other than a collar and elbow for most of the grappling. Holding the opponents head with a single hand à la ASPW would look better to a third-person observer, as most power moves in real matches occur after lifting the opponent off the mat.
Yup, there is some static poses there in between some transitions and I agree that the robotic KoC look is something we need to address. However, it's a simple fix that doesn't affect gameplay where as we have other issues that are more than aesthetic and therefore higher up on the priority list. Our plan is to incorporate additional idle animations (what we refer to as 'idle loops') where needed. And it wouldn't affect the responsiveness either because we can interrupt any animation mid cycle. But we all agree, there is much we can do to improve the fluidity of the animations. I just have to be the bad guy at some point put some things on the back burner in favor of what I feel are more pressing issues.
"Nothing is going to make this game look "indy-ish" more than robotic KOC-style stop and starts."
lol, I hope you're wearing your flame resistant jersey today ;-)
As for the collar and elbow tie up it's here to stay and I'm also pretty sure we've been up front about that since the beginning. That being said, I'm a HUGE fan of ASPW3 animations and when we feel the time is right to expand our grapple system you can rest assured we will. The fact that we took the time to add a seemingly small detail like the side grapple position should point to our commitment to really buffing out the grappling mechanics. But we had to start small and basic, hence, a collar and elbow system to start with.
Finally, to avoid any future confusion, the move animations you see in these videos are final for Uprising. We naturally plan new and improved animations for the future but Uprising will use what you see now.
Oh believe me, bring on the flames. I've played almost every wrestling game known and am a huge fan of fire pro, ASPW3 (best animations ever) no mercy, even Touken Retsuden and the like. As much as those KOC games get praised (and I've played every one), I personally absolutely can't stand them.
And by the way, the idle loops are exactly what I was talking about, so that's great news.
[quote]As for the collar and elbow tie up it's here to stay and I'm also pretty sure we've been up front about that since the beginning. That being said, I'm a HUGE fan of ASPW3 animations and when we feel the time is right to expand our grapple system you can rest assured we will. The fact that we took the time to add a seemingly small detail like the side grapple position should point to our commitment to really buffing out the grappling mechanics. But we had to start small and basic, hence, a collar and elbow system to start with.[/quote]
That's great to hear. I, for one, would be disappointed if you guys just did a standard 2 tier front grappling animation consisting of ONLY the collar and elbow setup, like No Mercy. Would make the game seem archaic. Maybe expand the front grapple animations by adding one that starts with a quick punch, or a knee, etc. MUCH like how Smackdown: Here Comes The Pain did with theirs, giving players the option to choose which grapple initiation animation they'd like for the wrestlers.
I love what i see so far. Definitely reminds of No Mercy. I especially like the side grapple animation because i've never played one in a wrestling game that offers a side grapple transition. So it was very cool to see one finally & to believe i will be playing one soon.
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]As for the collar and elbow tie up it's here to stay and I'm also pretty sure we've been up front about that since the beginning. That being said, I'm a HUGE fan of ASPW3 animations and when we feel the time is right to expand our grapple system you can rest assured we will. The fact that we took the time to add a seemingly small detail like the side grapple position should point to our commitment to really buffing out the grappling mechanics. But we had to start small and basic, hence, a collar and elbow system to start with.[/quote]
I assume by this you mean that between Uprising and the full PWX the collar/elbow will be supplemented with a variety of grappling positions until it no longer looks overused. I can accept this plan, but I hope it's one of the higher priorities to implement post-uprising.
[quote][cite] action937:[/cite]As much as those KOC games get praised (and I've played every one), I personally absolutely can't stand them.[/quote]
I can understand that. My jaw drops at the amount of love that obviously went into developing those games but they lack a certain fun factor that makes me want to play them too often. Fire Pro Returns remains my favorite Japanese wrestling game. If I could only keep three wrestling games one of them would be KoC2 but if I only have time to play one match it will be No Mercy or VPW2.
[quote][cite] Q.I:[/cite] I, for one, would be disappointed if you guys just did a standard 2 tier front grappling animation consisting of ONLY the collar and elbow setup, like No Mercy. Would make the game seem archaic. Maybe expand the front grapple animations by adding one that starts with a quick punch, or a knee, etc. MUCH like how Smackdown: Here Comes The Pain did with theirs, giving players the option to choose which grapple initiation animation they'd like for the wrestlers.[/quote]
I hear ya. But it's the old "walk before you run" argument from me again. We have to get the basics working acceptably before branching out.
[quote][cite] RoadWarriorAce:[/cite]I love what i see so far. Definitely reminds of No Mercy. [/quote]
Guilty as charged. Every guy has his favorite wrestling game and I guess it's pretty obvious where I found most of my inspiration. Still, a half-assed No Mercy clone isn't going to do us any favors so we better make sure that we continue to bring in new ideas instead of relying on "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
[quote][cite] lchr788:[/cite]A very nice, robust and fluid set of grapples Dave.[/quote]
Thank you, but I really want to add more and in many more positions. More grapple freedom=happy Dave.
[quote][cite] Zin5ki:[/cite]I assume by this you mean that between Uprising and the full PWX the collar/elbow will be supplemented with a variety of grappling positions until it no longer looks overused. I can accept this plan, but I hope it's one of the higher priorities to implement post-uprising.[/quote]
You bet. More more more. But basics first. We've learned the hard way what can happen if your ego gets in the way of development reality and it won't happen again. Baby steps from square one. Uprising may only represent 1% of what I eventually want the PWX franchise to be but I'm proud of that 1%. Took long enough dammit. Let's hope it goes a bit more smoothly from this point forward. For example, no more licensing software from people who don't actually own it. Grrrr.