Dave suggested someone make a thread for this as its the perfect time to do so. They haven't started this aspect of the game yet, so now is the time.
Now obviously button mashing is out. It just doesnt work well. I personally think there should be some reversals for moves that send you out of the ring, and well as certain moves that send you out. I'd love to see a back body drop(not sure if I said the right move im tired...) to the outside. Same with powerbombs etc. A german suplex maybe...
But the original problem remains. How to get someone outside other than certain moves... In most instances there are epic struggles by the rope. With bigger guys a few people might gang up to lift him. This often reminds me of ants, all working for a single purpose. So we know how it should look. But how should the mechanics look for it...
Maybe kind if like rock paper scissors. Like when you are in this state at the ropes if I press x and you press x, you get tossed over. If you press a, b or y, you stay in. The reason I said this is so its harder to toss someone out. But thats far too random in my opinion, seeing as that makes it a game of chance, and doesnt promote beating your opponent at all...
How about smackdown vs raws system on the ladder. How one person punches, and the other person has the chance to counter, or you can grapple, and the other person can counter. I personally like this system more. Each person has a chance with it. Many chances. Its also got the advantage of promoting beating up your opponent before doing it. Maybe have the prompt to try and counter be the person lifting the others leg, or generally struggling to get the person over.
As always, I'm open to any suggestions, and want everyone to mention theirs.
Hm I think the battle royal system should also be different for the kind of weight the guy is. For example a super heavy weight I would say has to have atleast 2 guys on him, unless the other guy is another super heavyweight. But it should take 2 heavys for one super or something. People who are light heavyweights/cruisers should be able to be tossed out with moves. And heavyweights, hm I dunno, someone want to come up an idea for heavyweights >_>?
I agree with mifin about the different weight ideas. Would that mean as well that super-heavyweights could gorilla press a lightweight outa the ring? I feel all the Batlle Royal style matches in all of the wrestling games I have played sucked. The main issue is the button bashing element that seems to come into play with these type matches (SvR im looking at u)
My problem with every battle royal game I've played is it isn't even necassary to actually wrestle. Its more about trying to constantly eliminate your opponent and IMO, thats no fun. Frequent attempts at eliminations fine and all, but them actually succeeding very early should be rare. So heres my solution.
Why can't it be so much different than being pinned? I mean in certain places in a match when certain things have happened it should be impossible to kick out right? Well why can't it be like that in a Battle Royal? I know in Fire Pro wrestlers have health, and spirit. The lower their health gets, the lower their spirit gets. Certain things boost spirit (hitting signature moves, taunts, finishers, reversing finishers, outlasting submissions, kicking out of opponent's finishers) and therefore increase your chances of making a comeback and kicking out of more moves and whatnot.
So if I go to irish whip my opponent and we're right next to the ropes at the beginning of the match (high spirit, high health) he'll maybe fly over the top rope and hang on to the apron. Now why not have staged grapples (Weak, Medium, Strong) just like everything else? moves damage the spirit and health, but you have a chance at countering. The lower the spirit and health of the guy on the apron, the bigger chance of the guy attacking succeeding in executing a stronger move. Weaker moves like a punch might actually be able to knock off an opponent if they're weak enough.
Dealing with regular moves that go to the outside, I think they should work in a similar way. Maybe at high spirit/health a vertical suplex is not even executed and you get the "start to lift up and can't" animation. at Medium spirit/health the guy being attacked does a floatover and lands on the apron. at low spirit/health he is finally suplexed straight over. Cool things about this is maybe if both players are at low health/spirit you could get double eliminations (maybe a 10% chance of double elimination when both are at very low spirit/health) This could also apply to counters, say you have low spirit/health and you immediately try and knockout a fresh man. He has a higher chance of eliminating you with a counter.
I think weight should definitely have an effect on Battle Royals, so I think the bigger you are, you start with more spirit, and have a higher regeneration rate in this kind of match. Not way more than the smaller guys where it makes it impossible to compete with a smaller guy, but definitely something noticable. That way you get the classical super heavyweight stand off where the 2 giants finally clear the ring of the small guys and clash. Likewise it makes sense for smaller guys to work together to knock the big guy out.
ok, so this game is going to work percentages right? So then the CPU takse into account height, weight, stamina, and how beat up you are verses the same on your opponite. for example, it should still take three big guys to get Yokozuna out, even after I kick the crap out of him. Just animation some cool moves for it, I miss smashing peoples heads on the post for an out.
Maybe the best way for cruiserweights to eliminate superheavies should be outlasting them like in real life. Lets say a cruiserweight is beating a superheavyweight... They are the only two in the ring, it should be possible for him to win. How about... You get him on the ropes, and using the same system with countering the attempts for someone trying to lift you out. Maybe a cruiserweight should be able to choose their animation for it. Like, a mixture of running dropkicks, and clothlines, or any mix. Also maybe... a dropkick off the top rope like chris jerichos triangle dropkick. That would rule...
I was thinking of one other thing. How could you work out a double elimination? Could their be a special button combo to sacrifice yourself for the elimination? For say your tagteam partner? Or maybe if you are on the ropes and counter it at the wrong/perfect time, you get a double out. Kind of like a bonus. It would be pretty awesome in a spitful way... Im talking for a running clothesline/dropkick elimination.
Maybe the toprope elmination should be the easiest to land, but if you fail, you fail big. Like the person dodges and you pretty much jump out the ring. Maybe have the ability to counter their counter so you land on the rings edge? Then its a different version of a punch off contest like on smackdown vs raws ladders. So you can get back in if you win, or maybe if you win the punching contest you pull them over the ring rope to the outside. Maybe have several types of eliminations from that grapple, like a ninja style judo flip outside, a power house suplex to the outside, a chokeslam, a roughneck pull over the ropes to flip them outside... I'm tacking on more and more situations... It would make this the most diverse battle royal ever....
I am not being arrogant when I say that I love battle royal modes more than anything in any game and that to me is my biggest selling point, game mode wise. I have played them all and I believe I have the experience and knowledge to give you some ideas? I believe there a few ways the engine can be done and still be better than any wrestling games.
1. Weight Based Elimination System. Example I figure the game has 3-4 different weight detections perhaps?
1. Lightweight/Cruiserweight (120-175 LBS.) 2. Junior Heavyweight (176 - 206 LBS.) 3. Heavyweight (206 - 260/280 lbs, this area needs a more diverse weight area) 4. Superheavyweight (260 and Up)
So. I pick an Option 1 character. That character has 4 ways to eliminate designed to his weight, or I should say one for each main button (ps3,Xbox 4 main buttons, you know the ones I am referring to.) The Dropkick to a DAZED opponent and that motion sends him wobbling towards the ropes and THEN based off how the opponents energy is, he will go over and land of the apron,to slide back in, OR he will fall to the floor. 3 Animations, the last one is a hit or miss, pending on Energy. That is an example for one. More can be thought up upon request.
I feel Junior heavyweights are the middle of Cruiser and Heavyweight so they should get the balance between the two. Heavyweight are power moves over the ropes, besides the gorilla press. Examples would be bodyslams,firemans carries, etc.
Superheavyweight should be the only one to have the Gorilla press. and All Heavyweight moves.
I personally feel that playing a battle royal/ rumble should be like a game all in itself. BUT I know that can be tricky when it comes to programming and the idea above is kinda in that area.
SO, I have another idea which will fit well I think.
Lets say we have 4 main buttons. Each button should have a way to eliminate someone ONCE they are up against the ropes, which can be done when you irish whip someone thats already close to the ropes. Once they hit the ropes and become dazed against them, a press of the button can activate 4 (can be more depending on how many buttons we use in the game) different types of eliminations.
1. Turns opponent over and begins to scoop him up and trying to flip him over the ropes (similar to WRESTLEMANIA for XBOX) 2. A clothesline 3. With the opponents back against the ropes, begins lifting the opponent up by the legs. 4. With the opponents back against the ropes, you start to punch him and then in the same animation you turn him around (now facing the crowd) and you attempt to launch him over by holding the back of his neck and his trunks.
All of which can then be reversed in a timing situation perhaps? I believe energy should play a big part on how long you last. Of course you can also do an animation with the opponent in the corner turnbuckle and then the idea of different suplexes and slams. Being able to team up is something the RAW/SD games did right.
If you'd like more ideas I would be more than happy to provide them as I am a fan of the battle royal mode
I love battle royal modes too, I'm hoping to see some customizable (like No Mercy) battle royals in PWX. I always loved a good pin/submission only 40 man rumble!
To hugenstein... So your 4 different animations would be when they are groggy against the ropes? Thats what I'd like to see... Variety. Maybe have multiple choices? Like 16 choices per weight class. I was also thinking 5 weight classes would be nice. I'll expend on that later though.
Here's a crazy idea...seriously, just hear me out on this. In Royal Rumble for the SNES/Genesis, RR eliminations occured via an over-the-top-rope HIP TOSS. This hip toss happens either A) when an opponent runs at you and you're close enough to the ropes to hit the whipped grapple, or B) when they've been physically weakened and you Max-grapple them near the ropes (in the SNES game, you had to button mash L or R all the way to the end of your meter to get the Max grapple, reserved for RR eliminations and your Finishing Maneuver). Just a shot in the dark here.
Button mashing.... eh.... let me some up what I think would be best now, taking into consideration every idea.
I'd like to see each character able to eliminate people one on one to be fair. Why should a little guy be screwed? I'd like to see team play. I'd like to see some specials have the ability to send someone out of the ring. I'd like to see critical high flying moves that will send ANYONE outside of the ring.(for the little guys) I'd like to see the big guys have more ways to eliminate smaller guys... such as crosschops clothleslines powerbombs chokeslams etc. I'd like to see someone have a chance to reverse beign eliminated. It should NEVER be guaranteed that you will eliminate someone. With that being said here is my solution to my amazing wants....
You would need specialized moves, that is simple. So here is a list of specialized moves...
Dragging moves. When an opponent is properly beat up, you should have the option to drag the opponent to the ropes(like smackdowns total control system in a way), and do a specialized elimination move(have options). Maybe when you press up and grapple there, you do a running strike, like a clothlesline. Maybe down and grapple would be an actual grapple attack(like a punching battle or a roughneck toss out), maybe left and grapple would innitiate the standard struggle where you try and lift them out with their legs(and have this be the only one that people can double/triple/etc. team), and finally right grapple could be your special elimination(higher chance of elimination if the situation is right, or a momentum shift if it isnt).
Also from the groggy-against the ropes position. As I mention before, highflyers should have the option to do a highflying move(if your stats show you are skilled enough). Have plain running strikes etc. Maybe have it so to perform the battle royal grapples you need to press the action button and the grapple button, so you can still do normal rope moves. I dont see why you need meters and widgets for eliminating people. It should be like on wrestling, you beat someone down till they are puddy, then eliminate them, or catch them in a fatal mistake and eliminate them.
I'm thinking certain high power/climatic moves should have special reversals that might send the opponent outside(such as a spear or powerbomb[the hurricanrana to the outside(yes im using brackets like in math)]). lol Yeah. It should all be a fleshign out of the standard fighting. Basically more touchy than a single player match. If you mess up once in a regular match you can recover, it happens a lot. In a royal rumble you mmight be layign outside on the floor if you do.
I think I explained my ideas better this time around, aswell as incorperated others. Its a process!
is it possible that any pin moves can be stoped from pinnig in non pin matches such as battle royals. so if the user does a 5-star-frog-splash in a normal match then he will pin automatically, but if the move was done in a royal rumble they would automatically roll-off the oppenent I dont know if this would be easy to implement but its just a thought
Here is what i think would be best for the flying moves while you are in the air if you press the pinning button then he will pin the guy if not then he would just do the move regularly.
I wanna be able to do that Chris Benoit Elimination to the Big Show, the one that won him the rumble. Big Show was just gonna toss him over, and Benoit grabbed the ropes and headscissored him to the floor. That would be the sweet, the ability to reverse eliminations.
Another idea I had which would be very accurate and fun is (read my multi-option elimination system above)
Say you use option 4 and you go flying over the ropes, then 2 things can happen. You can roll back in immediately OR and heres a good one, Use the ropes to stand back up on the apron, and now your able to walk the apron in which you can battle with someone before coming back in or someone can run and clothesline you, etc and you MIGHT just fall off.
Imagine being in that situation in the game where, you don't fall to the floor, your character stands back up and now you have to manually get back into the ring, BUT, the opponent is there waiting to hit you, grapple, etc.
ddemon x- Here is what i think would be best for the flying moves while you are in the air if you press the pinning button then he will pin the guy if not then he would just do the move regularly.
I like that idea a lot.
and to hugenstien. That happens a lot in the old smackdowns. It would happen when you reverse an elimination... i believe.
Yeah, the early Smackdown games had where you would get irish whipped and go over the ropes, only to roll back in, and it looked like one animation, making it kinda obvious.
Then the later games had where you go over, to land on your feet and then you get pushed off, BUT you stood kinda dazed for a moment.
What I was saying is kinda hybrid of both.
If I go to launch you (NOT irish whip you) over the ropes you can EITHER land on your back to the apron and roll back in by pressing the same button you use to get into the ring. OR you can CHOOSE to stand up and walk the apron, when you feel good and ready, you can get back into the ring by pressing the same button you use to enter/exit the ring.
The choice is what I am saying. It creates more unpredicability, making the game much better to play with friends because you can no longer assume he/she will just get right back into the ring. But, you can't assume either that they will stand up on the apron.
Maybe have a reversal to a move that launches them should be they land on the apron. Or with more atheletic characters, how about they do the skinning the cat move, like hbk does.