Let me start by saying that every month i get the WGU newsletter and all I understand is that there are some new problems in the release or development of PWX. Lets got back to the year 2002, when all this started; a group of people were going to make the first wrestling game "for the fans, by the fans" wich could've got any wrestling game fan's attention, the game would've been very very special, unique really, and it would've beat every wrestling game that was about to come. Everyone was so excited about the idea, that they ignored totally that the crew that was about to make the game had very low experience at making this type of games, and everyone started thinking about how the game would be. And now lets get back to the present day, 6 years later from when it all started and lets see what we've got so far: a 1 vs. 1 wrestling game that is too afraid to be released because the wrong publishing could cause a huge bankrupt; nobody know what is so special about this game that could beat the massive games by THQ... if I told someone about a 1 vs. 1 full wrestling game he would say something like "low budget" or something else, but the last thing on his mind is "unique". We all know that Uprising is just breaking the deadlock in the PWX series because the next PWX release will be the game we all have been waiting for, but I don't know if anyone thinks that it took 6 years to create this game, so just think how long you will have to wait for the next one, the GREAT ONE. Untill PWX will release their "big" game, THX will develop much better games, and PWX will have no chance. I want to make something straight, I am NOT trying to make this post as an insult to PWX crew, I understand that they have been going to rough times, but the game industry is just CRUEL and lets just be honest, how many people do you think will buy Uprising instead of some Smackdown vs Raw edition or Here Comes The Pain, I am a PWX supporter, but I admit, I wouldnt. I know that I am going to recieve a lot of "f**k you" messages, or I am probably going to be disabled off this forum, but I am just saying how I feel, and probably, how things are. As an ending I want to repeat: I AM NOT TRYING TO INSULT ANY PWX CREW MEMEBER OR FAN, its just that things aren't going how we all expected...
Yeah, I know what you mean and can sympathize with you. The newsletter these days aren't even remotely interesting. The website never gets updated, everything seems stale. Although Uprising isn't even out yet, but from the looks of it, probably only gonna enjoy it out of the fact that, it's finally there. Anyone remember the PWX gameplay video a while back? Alot of complaints about the lack of "oompf" on the moves, the crappy selling, stiff everything in general, and for fans to have any idea of an improvement, no signs have been shown so far.
Remember the Tips and Tricks article? "End of 2007" for release date. We're in 2008 and a prologue is still on the sidelines. I know about all of the publishing deals and whatnot, and can understand the difficulty of that... but aside from the newsletter, the crew has got to show that game has some sort of life in it. If anyone who doesn't know PWX stumbles upon it right now, it screams vaporware.
Also from the sounds of it, if the gameplay was to practically shadow No Mercy, PWX success will turn out like Fire Pro's in North America, because those game basics are simply too traditional and archaic nowadays.
Thoughts from a PWX supporter who has lost most of his optimism.
Fallen? Hardily. Hindered? Possibly. PWX missed a lot of opportunities during development to get a ton of positive hype. Now, after a very tumultuous development, the team wants to be a bit more conservative. That doesn't work in business, unfortunately.
http://www.prowrestlingx.com/forums47/discussion/404/#Item_23 - my topic where I brought up an alternative to the current timeline of "Demo that costs money" to a free base game that you buy add-on packs for. My problem is we talk about PWX as a magical title, and it could never get a chance to show. So I believe Uprising should be THE game as is where you pay for add-ons vs. paying all at once. Same principle, just a lot safer than tossing a game out there that my not sell.
I can't really fault the team at all. They work hard, and they are great with customers. That alone is enough for me to invest my money in them.
Thank you for being honest. I wish I could say some magic word and take away everyone's frustration but there's nothing magical about the situation at all. We're sitting on Uprising because we have to, not because we don't want it out there. Every day we don't have Uprising for sale I personally go into more debt. Me want revenue. I know it's been a long long time since we started down this road and the new lines on my face are proof. But you're right, we had no idea what we were doing when we started. As a result, I'm not ashamed of what Uprising turned out to be, but I'm very embarrassed about the garbage I spewed back then thinking I knew what it took to make a wrestling game without never having made one.
Damn, I gotta run, but I want to continue this discussion with you this weekend. We can't go back in time but we can make the best of the current situation which really...ain't that bad at all.
Dave and the guys have just been victims of reality. Truth be told shit happens, sometimes a lot of shit. But does that mean that PWX isn't going to do well, I don't think so. THQ does not make wrestling games, Yukes does and ever since they stopped making Toukon Retsuden they have sucked at it. TNA looks to me as if it has more promise at least in the gameplay aspect of it and that too looks like it will suck. PWX is our only hope for a solid wrestling game and I'm sure that if it gets marketed it will succeed, or at least let the guys break even. True, hype for PWX isn't what it used to be but im sure that will change once people get to see it in action.
[quote][cite] EricJ1186:[/cite]Fallen? Hardily. Hindered? Possibly. PWX missed a lot of opportunities during development to get a ton of positive hype. Now, after a very tumultuous development, the team wants to be a bit more conservative. That doesn't work in business, unfortunately.
http://www.prowrestlingx.com/forums47/discussion/404/#Item_23 - my topic where I brought up an alternative to the current timeline of "Demo that costs money" to a free base game that you buy add-on packs for. My problem is we talk about PWX as a magical title, and it could never get a chance to show. So I believe Uprising should be THE game as is where you pay for add-ons vs. paying all at once. Same principle, just a lot safer than tossing a game out there that my not sell.
I can't really fault the team at all. They work hard, and they are great with customers. That alone is enough for me to invest my money in them.[/quote]
Yes, I already saw your topic, and I liked the idea of course, but what I really wanted to make clear for the PWX supporters (I am one of you guys) is that the competition is so freaking hard, so that they shouldnt expect PWX to be a "blockbuster" from its first release. I have seen PWX fans reaction when they hear bad news about PWX development, they are like "oh, its ok, they'll get over it", well no offence, but some of you just want to see the game out and thats all you support right now.
And Dave, I know your in a sticky situation, I understand that you are very stressed and no1 can say they know what you guys have been thru for PWX to survive and continue fighting, but as I was saying, the competition is very good, and that could affect PWX in its becoming The Unique Wrestling Game; I admit that it would be "for the fans, by the fans", but that doesnt mean that it can bankrupt you.... I just want to see PWX come out safely as everyone else, but I am a supporter with "eyes opened", I'm not one of the fans that only support you when your going well, and when your having some issues they pretend they don't even know you...
Well just like ShadeTm through the hard times & good times I've always supported PWX. I rarely missed a day since 2002 for the last 6 years did i ever not check out PWX news/updates...post on forums & check out the official PWX website.
Even if the first installment is an okay wrestling game i don't mind...i am not expecting miracles the first time around but i am expecting good gameplay (at least), a good caw & a few matches (1 vs 1, tag & steel cage) & i am happy as hell.
They just don't torture themselves with having to send out a newsletter each week.
They have been pretty boring lately but they're working on a publishing deal. They could just make up a bunch of stuff, I guess.
"Had a no-ropes barbed-wire deathmatch yesterday and told them to take out the elbow-breaking mini-game. We're gonna be moving that to the exploding elevator match. Also the new baby-on-spikes match is halfway finished!"
[quote][cite] ShadeTm:[/cite][quote][cite] EricJ1186:[/cite]Fallen? Hardily. Hindered? Possibly. PWX missed a lot of opportunities during development to get a ton of positive hype. Now, after a very tumultuous development, the team wants to be a bit more conservative. That doesn't work in business, unfortunately.
http://www.prowrestlingx.com/forums47/discussion/404/#Item_23 - my topic where I brought up an alternative to the current timeline of "Demo that costs money" to a free base game that you buy add-on packs for. My problem is we talk about PWX as a magical title, and it could never get a chance to show. So I believe Uprising should be THE game as is where you pay for add-ons vs. paying all at once. Same principle, just a lot safer than tossing a game out there that my not sell.
I can't really fault the team at all. They work hard, and they are great with customers. That alone is enough for me to invest my money in them.[/quote]
Yes, I already saw your topic, and I liked the idea of course, but what I really wanted to make clear for the PWX supporters (I am one of you guys) is that the competition is so freaking hard, so that they shouldnt expect PWX to be a "blockbuster" from its first release. I have seen PWX fans reaction when they hear bad news about PWX development, they are like "oh, its ok, they'll get over it", well no offence, but some of you just want to see the game out and thats all you support right now.
And Dave, I know your in a sticky situation, I understand that you are very stressed and no1 can say they know what you guys have been thru for PWX to survive and continue fighting, but as I was saying, the competition is very good, and that could affect PWX in its becoming The Unique Wrestling Game; I admit that it would be "for the fans, by the fans", but that doesnt mean that it can't bankrupt you.... I just want to see PWX come out safely as everyone else, but I am a supporter with "eyes opened", I'm not one of the fans that only support you when your going well, and when your having some issues they pretend they don't even know you...[/quote]
sorry about the message up there, I was just tring to correct some mistake, what I meant to say is "I admit that it would be "for the fans, by the fans", but that doesnt mean that it can't bankrupt you" but hell knows what in earth I pressed :D
[quote][cite] marlasinger:[/cite]For all I know this happens to every game.
They just don't torture themselves with having to send out a newsletter each week.
[/quote]
I think you nailed it. I made a promise to deliver a newsletter every Friday regardless of good news, bad news, or no news. More than a few people have advised us to go dark and completely disappear until distribution is in place and a launch date is guaranteed to be less than three weeks away. Maybe it's just me, but I believe that what makes us different than most other companies is that we're right up front openly sharing the journey with anyone who cares enough to pay attention.
I have to wonder how differently things would have gone if I never told a soul what I was trying to do and hadn't been so public about the effort?
A minor new site update is coming shortly that will finally answer the one question that has been on everyone's mind, "Is the Canadian Destroyer in the game?" I hope you all have a sense of humor when you get the answer ;-)
Back on topic, we learned fairly early on that a small indy game can't compete with the WWE/TNA games in any way that required $$$. Love and persistence may have gotten the ball rolling and kept it rolling but the nuts and bolts of actually building a wrestling game from the ground up requires the full time commitment of people in the various disciplines of art, animation, tools programming, AI programming, etc. and you aren't likely to find those people living rent and expense free with their parents. You're going to have to pay those people and they can't live (in Vancouver anyway) on minimum wage. The actual business of building a game of the scope we had hoped for PWX takes time. A lot of time. To quote another Vancouver developer, "Any feature or game mechanic you want in your game will take no less than three months for one person to perfect from scratch. Do the math and that's your schedule and budget. Now multiply by three and you still have a 50/50 chance of failing." I didn't believe him then. Now I think he underestimated.
So at the end of the day it is what it is. Sure, it's been a long and expensive journey but look at it this way. If I had just today decided to start a game development company and someone dropped Uprising in my lap as a starting point I'd be thrilled to death. So I guess it took us six years to get to the starting line. I'm happy to still be in the race.