So this is my idea of what how the momentum and finishers should work which i hope you take in consideration now it's very hard for me to translate my idea from my head to writing so i'll do my best to try to be clear and i apologise for my limited knowlege on wrestling games since the only ones i've played are the ones for N64, SD!2 and RAW(obviously i use my PC to play).I encourage everyone to participate and give ideas or point out flaws.
Now i guess most of the people here know the RAW momentum system with the bar on the bottom of the screen and i guess you also know the smackdown system of storing finishers after beating you're opponent(well in SD!2 it was like that don't know if they have changed it) my idea is to somewhat combine the two like you would still have them both on screen when the match starts no one has a finisher stored(which could be set to 1 stored or more as you like before the match in options) and the bar is split equally but as the match progresses after beating your opponent for a while and hitting bigger moves and the bigger the move or the hardest to hit like from the turnbuckle the faster the finisher would be stored now untill here it's pretty simple but what does the RAW momentum bar does in all this?well the momentum bar would be influenced by the pace of the match like if you are running around the arena the bar would start to go back to how it was at the start of the match and if the opponent reverses a move the bar would favor him(i'll make a list of things that could influence the momentum bar at the bottom of the post*) at this point things are pretty much like the SD! and RAW games but it's the reversals that are going to change things now imagine that you're opponet is beating you and the momentum bar is favoring him but you are able to counter a big move(this would dramatically change the momentum as the more momentum the guy has the more the momentum would shift to your favor) and make a couple of big moves of your own but you don't have any finisher stored obviously the momentum has shifted and even if you don't have special if the momentum bar is favoring you enough like if it's flashing in your favor you could hit the finisher now this could be the end of the match for the other guy that has been beating you since the start of the match but if he was able to store a finisher during the match as you where pinning him he could use the finisher as a way to kick out of the pin and have a near fall but let's imagine that hte whole match long you had a finisher stored and you counter hit your finisher while the momentum bar is flashing and have your finisher stored and you are pinning him and he uses his finisher stored to kick out you could counter that by pressing the finisher button while you where pinning him and that would make the pin successful and you would win the match and like that imagine that you are having a match and you have a finisher stored and you make a school boy and if you hit the finisher button then that would add the probability of the pin being successful the same as if you had hit a finisher(but the opponets health wouldn't change)but this could be countered if the opponent had a special stored and used it to kick out(this might not work everytime it could depend of the health of the player if the player was already very beaten up then the chances of this working would decrease but if he had 2 finishers stored and hit the finisher twice while on the pin of course the chances of kicking out would increase) and now the reversals they could be done by simple hitting the reversal button at the right time or you could use the combination of the finisher button and the reversal button to reverse every move except the finisher that could only be countered or reversed if you hit the finhisher button twice(or more depending if the opponent only hit the finisher button once) and like this could be used to counter also it could be used to inflict more damage with a finisher like if you have 2 finishers stored you could use them both in the same move by hitting the finisher button twice.
now i know this was pretty confusing heck even i am confused but if you have any questions or if i left anything important out please say so.
In your favor: -hiting bigger moves -keeping up a fluent pace of beating -hitting areal moves -taunting(and if you taunt after a big move the momentum would increase even more) -countering moves -kicking out of a finisher(like i suggested you could do) -using weapons -areal moves of a ladder = momentum of hitting areal moves + using weapons -making the hot tag(might not be just in this PWX)
Against you: -running around not hitting any moves -being countered -hitting the same move over and over -failing to hit a areal move -standing in there not doing anything(this wouldn't lower the momentum lower than like it was in the start of the match cause you weren't exactly being beaten) -spaming taunts(maybe the crowd could start to boo you) -spaming the use of weapons but i mean really spaming a lot
i can't remember more right now so please give ideas of what could add to this list and give your opinion on this idea ;)
My reply is more based on the reversal system. I have read other sections of the forums. Like most people on this forum I have played a great deal of wrestling games (further than the usual WCW and SVR series) 1 thing that has stood out for me in a bad way is the reveasals. This has nothing to do with the mechanics or logistics of animations, but purely from a fans perspective. The first time I see a reversal in wrestling games it makes me smile, the second time as well, but by the third I can tell when the reversal is happening. I feel that at least 30-40% of wrestling matches are reversals. So I beg the makers of this game put as many reversal animations in that you can. This point is mainly to the SvR series but just 1 suplex counter is NOT enough and becomes VERY tiresome after a while. On the GameCube games the camera angles give away when a reversal is being performed.
Also on a side-note, im unsure if any wrestling game has done this (probably GG2000 on the DC) but can u reverse a reversal? this is something that I would love to be incorporated into PWX
Well about the momentum bar I would say its pretty much like SvR but without the kicking out of pins part but I think you added to it and the funny thing is I believe it would really fix a few things with that game..
Hmm never really played GG2000 but heard its a arcade style wrestling game but a good example of reversing reverses is glitch reverses on Smackdown as in 07 there is the headlock reversal right after the first pull of the head if you hit your stike reversal button you will counter out of the animation it was also like this on 06 with the hammer lock reversal..
But I can't really picture how it would be done guess Im just sleepy lol ne way great DDemonX
One thing I did want to see is if say ur running and holding Y on the 360 controller. Say you tap X then you do a slide under your oppenents legs. I thought that would be neat as a cruiserweight esque thing.
"One thing I did want to see is if say ur running and holding Y on the 360 controller. Say you tap X then you do a slide under your oppenents legs." Dodging around and ducking under flying attacks needs to be added to that. As does dropping to the mat/jumping over the opponent to evade running strikes.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the subject of momentum, reversals, etc., DDemonX. You've definitely given it a lot of thought. I have to say that we're with you on most of it and in particular the ways momentum should be affected by other events. But one thing we don't plan to include is the ability to store guaranteed 'finishers' in any capacity. In PWX we want there to always remain a chance, even if minimal, of something unexpected happening. A guaranteed pinfall or kickout, in my opinion at least, takes away from the drama of what a good match should feel like. We had someone visit the studio a while back who was mortified that we don't plan to include 'health bars' in PWX.
"But how will I know when I've won?"
"Well...when you get a 3 count."
"But how will I know if I can get a 3 count?"
"Well, try pinning your opponent."
"But why would I try for a pin if I didn't know I could get a 3 count?"
"Thats the difference between a wrestling game and Mortal Kombat."
Oh well done Dave. You know, this game is definitely gonna be a masterpiece. It has everything a wrestling game should have! And the graphics are pretty good too! Keep it up!
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the subject of momentum, reversals, etc., DDemonX. You've definitely given it a lot of thought. I have to say that we're with you on most of it and in particular the ways momentum should be affected by other events. But one thing we don't plan to include is the ability to store guaranteed 'finishers' in any capacity. In PWX we want there to always remain a chance, even if minimal, of something unexpected happening. A guaranteed pinfall or kickout, in my opinion at least, takes away from the drama of what a good match should feel like. We had someone visit the studio a while back who was mortified that we don't plan to include 'health bars' in PWX.
"But how will I know when I've won?"
"Well...when you get a 3 count."
"But how will I know if I can get a 3 count?"
"Well, try pinning your opponent."
"But why would I try for a pin if I didn't know I could get a 3 count?"
"Thats the difference between a wrestling game and Mortal Kombat."[/quote]
No health bar, I'm so can't wait to play this game!
i am with you on the no health bars but.. how are you going to handle knowing what part of the body on your opponent is hurt the most? As the match goes on are the wrestlers going to hold their arm, limp, hold their gut, or head? I was also wondering if the wrestlers were going to slow down the more they are hurt? like i said i am with on the no health bars as long as there is other obvious ways to tell just how hurt your opponent is
I think, since there will be no health bars. You should use the momentum bar they had in the First Raw game on the X-Box, I think that would work better In my opinion. In Raw, whatever color you were, for example, player one is red and player two is blue, if player two is owning player one, the blue color bar would expand, if the bar expands just enough, it would start flashing, indicating a finisher.
Ive spent months pissing DO off pimping a finisher system. Still, I think the wisest thing to do would be to think of all the things a finisher system would allow you to do and find ways to do them with out a finisher system. I think the important thing is to make the game play in such a way that at any time anyone has a chance of making something big happen but make it surprising to everybody. At the same time I think its important to make the entire match included into who wins and who loses. If there are tricks a player can use to make cool things happen and to change momentum they shouldn't out way the basic things an opponent who's been kicking ass has been doing.