Have played, never payed... But I don't count - I really wanted to buy some stuff but couldn't since I would need a credit card and plenty of money, which I don't have. Maybe one day if I grow up...
I've played, and never payed myself. But there are millions of dollars being spent on in-game items. Nexon has kept quiet about how much they are actually making off of Maple Story, but the scene is apparently VERY big. The model actually works, provided you have a large enough install base. Make a cool enough looking item, and everyone will want it like the next fashion trend.
At that point, your business becomes that. I know what you're thinking Dave. And I think that no matter what, you should keep your game open to adding extra content to it, in the easiest way possible. It's a double-edged sword though. If you incorporate pay-to-buy in-game items, that means you must close the doors to community modding. Actually, I take that back. You can still have community modding and allow free downloads, just that it all has to end up going through your content distribution channels rather than the community's so that anyone that is playing online can see the mod, not just the person using it locally. Pretty easy to do with a submission process.
About the question of the week. The answer is a big NO. I've never played one of those free PC games like Maplestory & paid for additonal in-game items.
The only video games i play are good wrestling games. I am not big into videogames at all.
But if this is the route PWX is taking I am willing to pay whatever the cost is. Either way i will pay. I just wanna play this game. I've waited since 2002 when i first heard PWX is going to be made & followed this game almost every day since it was first conceived...patiently. I don't care about cost when it comes to PWX. I'll pay whatever it takes.
Have played, never paid. Personally, I think those tactics are very reminiscent of EA, basically, greedy asshole-ish tactics. Will support PWX, but not those methods of micro transactions.
As radiant said, micro transactions for in-game items will totally contradict online modding of the game. Which is ridiculous, since I'm sure PWX's success and longevity will ultimately hinge on the modding community.
Do you mean episodic content, like where most cheap game companies seem to be going? That'd be fine, I think. Sam & Max seems to be doing well. You could theme them up, have like a Puroresu pack and a United Kingdom pack. I think most teenagers are against this type of thing, though, since they don't have credit cards. Didn't really hurt the Sims, though.
If you're thinking of charging like $0.99 for a crowbar as a foreign object, then you're really asking for a riot.
No!!! Never!!! Don't do it Dave! Videogames only need that purchase price and thats it! Everyone who is rich would brag that they have the best items or moves. These companies like Nexon are in it for the money, unlike you guys at WGU, unless you want to betray us and have us pay for moves. But don't worry we will get our revenge when programmers mod their own version with all your fancy moves. Please, just let us purchase the game.
Besides... I'd never get my friends to play PWX if you did that! "Hey Joe I want you to check out this wrestling game PWX." "Cool, does it have my favorite move the Shooting Star Press or ladder matches?" "Yeah, but you have to buy it." "Screw that then, I rather play Smackdown where you just have to pay once for the game."
Sorry if my post is very sloppy and somewhat incoherent. I'm just extremely against these sort of payment concepts. I tried many free games, and I quickly found out that to progress any further I had to buy so many items. I'd appreciate these games more if they had a purchase price instead of buying items. Many kids in these games like MapleStory think the game is still free despite begging their parents to buy items for them. I swear, I've spoken to them.
Truth be told you guys have to do what is best for you and your families first. While alot of gamers would be upset by having micro transactions most of us will not really mind. If your micro transactions include roster updates, new arenas, new moves and attire, it is a smart business move to make and have those things for sale. I do however think that you should have a solid base that expands with micro transactions, and that we be aware of exactly what micro transactions include. For example, if you release a move pack, then we should be able to see what the moves are. A little video preview or at least animated gif would be very considerate of you, and would show us what we're paying for so that we can decide wether on not its worth buying. Downloadable content is the next big thing in gaming so its only natural for wgu from a business perspective to use it as a means to fund more projects and more importantly feed your families. If the core game is good, we (as in the PWX gamers) will pay for content, just keep it fresh and interesting and semi affordable. Modding the game will be fun but theres only so many things that modders can make as opposed to a true professional. If I make a mod, and you guys like the concept and make a similar one but they way it should be, hell I'll pay for it. I'd rather have it done right. In the end, gamers are very forgiving, (just ask SVR fans) so the phrase "if you build it they will come" applies. Give us a good game, we will support it, hell we didn't let FPR die did we? Imagine something we have been a part of.
Lest we forget wrestling fans are the type of people who will go to a Hooters to watch a PPV and not buy food. Can be av ery cheap bunch. I don't see the model working especially when you can just go to another wrestling game (i.e. Impact which is apparently being pimped out as No Mercy with better graphics)
Episodic content and digital distribution are the future of the gaming world. People LOVE this stuff, and if you don't think so, look at XBL and PSN. Both make tons of money off little add-on packs that aren't necessary. The key to selling these packs? Don't do it every month. In fact, once every three months may be too much, but when you finally release packs that add new wrestlers, features, moves, etc. for say $10, people will jump at it.
You will always have cheap people, but video gamers are going to spend money (they'd buy a $200-600 console or upgrade a PC for 200, then they'll gladly spend a few bucks on games).
Another option that I forgot to mention: Gametap. Look them up, they are doing extremely well.
I am all for PWX getting money. But I am against episodic content or microtransition. And I will tell you why: PWX will come out as an unfinished (game play-wise, not buggy) and then after time WGU will come up with another episode for it and again and again and again. The problem is that maybe people with credit cards will buy the game, but you are cutting yourself from the other fans (like me) who would love to buy it from the store but can't because they don't have credit cards or are unable to get the game for their country. This sucks for both WGU and the fans around the globe, which aren't few. And what's worse is that I might buy the first game and after three months you will make a sweet add-on adding stuff I was craving for and I will be unable to buy it because I am still sore from getting the money for the first game. There is only one game I know that's successful with micro add-ons is Battlefield 2! But I bought the complete game with the expansion pack and both booster packs. Because, Dave, I would gladly give you my $50 (even $100) for a damn well-made game and play my ass of. I will make mods, I will record matches, I will shred this game. And I am not the only one. My idea is - take your time, make the perfect wrestling game, box it and ship it everywhere. Then take the fans' suggestions and if desperately needed - make an expansion. All in time, of course. Because so many things can go wrong due to impatience...
I totally disagree with that. WGU is an unknown company. Do you really think anyone outside of this community who is hyped for it will plop down $50? I won't. I refuse to buy a downloaded game for more than $30.
Secondly, if someone who is only a little interested in the game plays the base game, and LOVES it would gladly pay $10 for an expansion that adds some stuff. But, if the demo is free and the full version is $50, they will play the hell of that demo finding everything wrong with it before the buy the game. Demos are never pinpoint accurate for a game. I remember I refused to buy Bioshock because the demo would crash on my computer. It was one of the best experiences I had in a game, but I wouldn't buy it until it was on sale.
Fact of the matter is, WGU and PWX are unknown, nobodies in the gaming industry. To expect enough people to put $50 on it to cover the cost is stupid. Look at Steam and Gametap. Indie games appear on there for around $10 and you really never hear from the companies again because they barely meet quota. Imagine having a base game come out for free with a timeline announcing when the first add-on would be. And it's giving a price of $15 and a ton of content. People will be very forgiving.
Also, spudz, sorry, but if you have no credit card, you really have no say in the matter. I believe PWX is going solely digital distribution which works with PayPal. If you have Paypal, you can generate a credit card number through it. If you don't, I don't see how you'd be able to buy the game anyway.
Fact is ther are LOTS of games that have made money from add-ons.
I've purchased every add on for Oblivion. There were several for that game.
Rock Band is currently setting the world on fire with new content every week. While I haven't purchased EVERY additional song for it that they have released I have purchased several.
So I can see that model working for PWX.
Unfortunately you will have guys who can't take advantage of that as spudz is saying. There are people out there like spudz who do not have a credit card for whatever reason. Maybe they are too young to have one. Maybe they don't have a banking institution that offers them. Maybe they just have not tried to get one.
The whole world is going digital. On-line transactions are here to stay.
My biggest worry is what that could do to the mod community.
[quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]You should know fans hate episodic content. Just make a nice game and charge 50 or 60 dollars. Then make expansions if needed! That's it![/quote] riiiiiight we all hate episodes
Right, Monitor! Exactly! If that's the way other people feel like Eric - then make the game like this. It will be like he said - If we can't buy it, we won't! Plain and simple. That's just too damn bad for us then, huh? Anyway - IMO you should also consider STEAM or GameTap - maybe STEAM because I personally have bought lots of games (actually only Orange Box, CS Source and HL1 Anthology, but that makes exactly 13 games if we don't count the free games, mods and demos) and I would work with STEAM like a lot of people do...
The problem with Steam - I believe they ask for a large cut of profits. When I was beta testing Savage 2 for like a year, we were begging them to just go with Steam and they wanted like a 30% cut of all profits. That's pretty hard to agree to.
Honestly, there is no reason you can't get the game if you have access to paypal. Like I said, it generates a credit card number for you to use for your account.
I don't get the backlash against episodic content. I have no clue what MapleStory is, and no, I've never gotten a free game and paid for add-ons, I have paid for a game and paid for add-ons, though. I have COD4 for 360 and paid the 12 bucks or whatever for the map pack. Sure, it kind of sucks to pay that much for 4 additional maps, but at the same time, its more content, and I believe that these maps actually add a lot to the overall gameplay. I play the game online a lot, so why exclude myself from further play when you know there will be a large number of people with these maps?
Lets say you release a very basic version of PWX; 2 characters, one arena, etc. Ok, cool. People give it a shot, they say 'this is pretty fun' and then head over to the website. On the website, from day one, we have a 10 dollar pack up offering lets say 10 characters, each with their own specialized movesets, appearance and so on. Maybe even offer each character separately for 2 bucks a pop. I think over time this could be a very good idea, my only suggestion is to make sure to include a full edit mode in the initial game, but have the mode unlocked once you start to buy add-on content, as it would be pretty worthless with the bare bones stuff.
I say look at it like this; if fans paid for 5 add-on packs of 10 dollars each (or break it down any way you want), they would have a full, complete game. Break things down like that. Maybe one pack is the story mode, with the needed arenas, characters and so on included (this would be down the line, I think last if possible), another could be an extra arena pack, with say 5 full arenas, all unique in their own way. You could have a pack with additional edit parts, such as clothing, faces, taunts, etc. You could have a pack of additional moves, etc.
You could also give people further control of the content they get by letting them mix and match what they get.
For example, lets say you put up 20 - 30 characters on the website for purchase, lets say there is a set price for all of them, like 10 dollars for 20/15 for 30, etc. Then, have a cheaper option where they can select half as many, but pick and choose which they want. On top of that, offer fans to pick out whatever they want, for maybe a premium price. Like I said above, maybe 1.50 - 2 bucks for individual characters if they don't want to drop the full price for the whole array of characters. The same can be done for edit parts, like say for example they can pay 2 bucks for 'Shoot Fighting Gear' which would include different kinds of boots with kickpads, different kinds of gloves, board shorts, fight shorts, boxing shorts, robes, entrance t-shirts, etc. Then there could be like an 'Indy Wrestling' pack that would have like tennis shoes with kickpads, baggy, shiny pants, deathmatch gear. You could make a lucha libre pack that would include a wide array of masks, colorful body suits and so on. You could also bundle all of them together for 10 bucks or so.
Seriously, that is not a bad idea. Then afterwards you could just sell the whole thing for 40 - 50 bucks with all of the add-on content for people that missed it. Maybe have fans have their own accounts at the website, and once they pay the full price they are allowed to download all of the content released that was in the full release so people don't feel cheated?
Hell, maybe even offer a few bucks a month for a subscription, make the subscription for a few months so that it works out to you guys getting a full 50 bucks from people and allow them to download whatever they want. There are tons of possibilities here.
Edit: As for dudes like spudz whose parents probably won't be up for it, well, I don't know, too bad? How do you get stuff now? Can you at least open a paypal account? How do you pay for stuff with Steam? I mean, look at the money people drop on WoW, STEAM and stuff like 2nd Life. There is clearly a huge market for this stuff.
People who dont have credit cards can just go buy prepaid mastercards or use paypal. Thats what I do, I dont trust having my personal info online so I go to walmart and buy a prepaid mastercard when needed. Its really nothing to stress over. It is easier than ever to buy things online in this day and age, and like monitor said digital distribution is hear to stay. it favors the consumer because they can get things from the comfort of home, and favors companies because it cuts down prices on packaging and production. Distributing an image over the internet is almost free, while printing it on media would cost alot of money. It is a smart business decision, and while I do love dave and the pwx staff for bringing this to our attention its really a no-brainer. Do what is best for business. You can only accept so much feedback from fans, because they are always changing their mind and theres too many opinions.
Has anyone noticed how few record stores there are compared to just five years ago? Retail game outlets are going the same way. In what is fast becoming a hit driven monster of an industry I fully expect to soon find only big budget games in big box retailers. Even now, digital distribution is almost the only option for developers like ourselves. We have a tentative deal for a boxed version of PWX but after marketing and packaging costs we stand to make very little, if anything, off that deal.
I don't think we could get away with charging for things the community can easily produce itself like CAW textures etc. but perhaps feature additions, match types, etc. are plausible.
Yes, I have. I've paid for upgrades to Adventure Quest and Dragon Fable years ago, though I don't play them anymore.
Though those are MMORPG's.
City of Heroes is the only MMORPG I play, and it isn't free, but there have been two additional content packs that they've put out, one being a utility travel ability and two costumes sets, and the other being entirely costume sets. This is above and beyond the amount I pay to play per month.
I'm perfectly happy to buy things to improve a game, as long as they deliver a decent amount of content and value.
I've paid for everything that I could with CoH. And would again if I had too.
Unfortunately my video card crapped out, and I had to regress back to my old Nvidia 6200 with only 256 mb, so I'm taking a bit of a break until I can get a new vodep card.
At least issue 12 will be out by the time I get back into the game on the Guardian server
I wanted to love CoH and CoV but I just couldn't get into them. Bought the collectors boxed set of CoV even assuming I'd love it. Do they still have free to play promo events every now and then?
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]I wanted to love CoH and CoV but I just couldn't get into them. Bought the collectors boxed set of CoV even assuming I'd love it. Do they still have free to play promo events every now and then?[/quote]
Yes they do. I know I can do the invite a friend, which is a 10 day free trial. If you then purchase the game, and activate that account, I would get 30 free days for the referal.
They will probably have a free-play option coming soon with the launch of issue 12. They usually have one either right before, or shortly after, one of the free expansions (Called issues as in comicbook issues)
You get the most enjoyment out of Coh/CoV when you have a group to play with. I spent the vast majority of my time playing solo for the first couple of years I played, which can become dull. You get a good group going though and you can really have some fun.
You have to figure out what archetype is the most enjoyable for you to play, etc, etc.