Call me sexist, but I'm a male wrestling fan, and the female wrestling circuit - what I've seen of it, which admittedly isn't a whole lot - bores me to tears.
That's a male's perspective, just food for thought.
You may be the only female active on the boards, as far as I know.
GOOD female wrestling can be incredibly fun to watch...unfortunately there isn't very much of the 'good' kind in North America. WWE has completely debased the style with their Divas for the most part.
I've heard good things about Shimmer, but have yet to catch any myself to judge for myself.
I've yet to see anything in a North American ring that can hold a candle to Japanese Joshi wrestling.
Wrestling IS a sexist business. A successful women only wrestling fed will include women whoring themselves to the public - nude matches and the sorts. Wrestling is a male business. Women have always been just eye candy. Only a few good wrestlarets can make a good match.
I am always amazed at how many smarks still think WWE when female wrestling comes up... sad, sad, sad.
Of course, female or not, WWE programming is largely indifferent to wrestling. If they could figure out a way to phase out the ring entirely, they'd slide smoothly into being a bizarre mtv soap opera.
And yeah, Shimmer is pretty good. It's the best of what north america has to offer... freaking Cheerleader Melissa, Sarah Stock, Amazing Kong, Lacey (a personal fav, her and Melissa), what have you. Granted, TNA did pick up a few of the purdier athletes, like Angel Williams and to a lesser extent Talia, but still.
And re:Spudz... I want you to google Aja Kong. She is successful. She's maybe not a household name, but people know who she is. She is the single ugliest specimen of femininity I have ever seen. In many cases it's hard to tell if some japanese girls actually ARE girls. Though, there are plenty of pretty ones, a la Mimi Hagiwara, Cuty Suzuki, Yumi Fukawa, Manami Toyota... and in the new generation you have more, like Ayumi Kurihara, Yumi Ohka...ya.
So, a few things you should know:
Among the sickest moves in wrestling today: the vertabreaker aka Cop Killa aka Gringo Killa was originally the Kudo Driver, for it's inventor MEGUMI KUDO.
AKIRA HOKUTO once took a tombstone piledriver off the top rope that broke her neck. She then wrestled the 3rd fall, 10 or 15 minutes, with a broken neck. She's also married to Kensuke Sasaki.
MANAMI TOYOTA is as good as wrestling gets. She's my girlfriend. We're going to get married.
For God's sake, look up Ayumi Kurihara.
Lastly, go to youtube or veoh and look for luckycleareyes. You can even ask him what he'd recommend. He's the man.
The WWE should really just put on an hour-long soap opera. Then they could move their 'talent' and 'superstars' over there and leave RAW and Smackdown to, you know, wrestling.
I'm not sure why they started a female wrestling division (post-whatshername, uh, Sunny). If they wanted a calender they should have just hired models, not a bunch of models and a couple of actual female wrestlers, who are not allowed to actually wrestle or do what they were hired to do. Or be credible. Hiring a female wrestler to be the punchline to every lecherous old man joke is just cruel.
marlasinger: Agreed. Like hiring Hiromi Uehara to play piano on stage at a strip club.
Although faar be it from me to say that there's nothing sexy about wrestling. It's just so crude and low brow to try to dress up shameless t 'n' a in a wrestling costume to pass it off as acceptable TV (and thus get a cheap ratings boost). But by FAR, the worst part about WWE's smut is that now whenever the subject of female pro wrestling comes up, guys say all of it sucks, and Trish Stratus was the best female wrestler. Trish Stratus is a ho and even sans professional training I could out-work her (not to mention knock her out or make her tap :D ). Mind you, I have no standards, really. I'll watch almost anything and enjoy it for what it is. Like GLOW. Remember GLOW? Cheesy, campy, neon 80's pulp. And, sometimes, when you're in the mood for cheesy campy 80's fun, it hits the spot. But if some guy ever says "ya girlz cant be wreslurs bcuz i saw holly wood on glow on tv and she sux!!!!1" then I would probably kill someone.
Anyway. Don't blame me. It's not my fault you wasted all that time reading this far. :P
Any chance we can keep this away from generic WWE bashing, lest we forget that Aja Kong has wrestled in WWE/F, thus removing the need to google her?
TNA has helped promote in a way, but their division has enough lookers in it to cancel any 'they only sign them for their ability' argument. Plus I believe their first champ was an ex WWE 'Diva'? WWE has put it on the back burner recently, but they still have the likes of Victoria, Beth Phoenix, and former indy darling Mickie James occasionally getting the chance to wrestle. Melinas not half bad and even Maria is slowly developing.
Your childish Trish Stratus rant is insane, she was probably the top male or female heel in the company a few years back.
[quote][cite] marlasinger:[/cite]The WWE should really just put on an hour-long soap opera. Then they could move their 'talent' and 'superstars' over there and leave RAW and Smackdown to, you know, wrestling.
I'm not sure why they started a female wrestling division (post-whatshername, uh, Sunny). If they wanted a calender they should have just hired models, not a bunch of models and a couple of actual female wrestlers, who are not allowed to actually wrestle or do what they were hired to do. Or be credible. Hiring a female wrestler to be the punchline to every lecherous old man joke is just cruel.[/quote] Good point very good point.WWE stoped actually being a wrestling company a long damn time ago and that sucks.But looking at their "tallent" I can understand why no actuall wrestling is shown in their shows all 3 of them
What I mean is that the successful girls can be counted with one hand. Wrestling is a male business and most girls there are really eye-candy. Yes - there are good women wrestlers. There are exactly 7 good females in the world... There are more than 100 good male wrestlers. I just wanted to prove a point...
[quote][cite] Colly:[/cite]Any chance we can keep this away from generic WWE bashing, lest we forget that Aja Kong has wrestled in WWE/F, thus removing the need to google her?
TNA has helped promote in a way, but their division has enough lookers in it to cancel any 'they only sign them for their ability' argument. Plus I believe their first champ was an ex WWE 'Diva'? WWE has put it on the back burner recently, but they still have the likes of Victoria, Beth Phoenix, and former indy darling Mickie James occasionally getting the chance to wrestle. Melinas not half bad and even Maria is slowly developing.
Your childish Trish Stratus rant is insane, she was probably the top male or female heel in the company a few years back.[/quote]
Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the thread.
[quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]What I mean is that the successful girls can be counted with one hand. Wrestling is a male business and most girls there are really eye-candy. Yes - there are good women wrestlers. There are exactly 7 good females in the world... There are more than 100 good male wrestlers. I just wanted to prove a point...[/quote]
[quote][cite] valdik:[/cite][quote][cite] marlasinger:[/cite]The WWE should really just put on an hour-long soap opera. Then they could move their 'talent' and 'superstars' over there and leave RAW and Smackdown to, you know, wrestling.
I'm not sure why they started a female wrestling division (post-whatshername, uh, Sunny). If they wanted a calender they should have just hired models, not a bunch of models and a couple of actual female wrestlers, who are not allowed to actually wrestle or do what they were hired to do. Or be credible. Hiring a female wrestler to be the punchline to every lecherous old man joke is just cruel.[/quote] Good point very good point.WWE stoped actually being a wrestling company a long damn time ago and that sucks.But looking at their "tallent" I can understand why no actuall wrestling is shown in their shows all 3 of them[/quote]
What a load. Sure WWE isn't non-stop, pure technical wrestling, but people like yourself rambling to the other extreme - that they have NO wrestling - is just as poor. Get off the high horse, it's pretty damn obvious that they HAVE wrestling. What a ridiculous thing to say, even if it's exaggeration - which it doesn't even seem to be. The whole gist of WWE still revolves around WRESTLING for TITLES, and it's viewpoints like that one above which make me frustrated when it comes to people acting smark-ey.
[quote][cite] Amazinggwenster:[/cite][quote][cite] Colly:[/cite]Any chance we can keep this away from generic WWE bashing, lest we forget that Aja Kong has wrestled in WWE/F, thus removing the need to google her?
TNA has helped promote in a way, but their division has enough lookers in it to cancel any 'they only sign them for their ability' argument. Plus I believe their first champ was an ex WWE 'Diva'? WWE has put it on the back burner recently, but they still have the likes of Victoria, Beth Phoenix, and former indy darling Mickie James occasionally getting the chance to wrestle. Melinas not half bad and even Maria is slowly developing.
Your childish Trish Stratus rant is insane, she was probably the top male or female heel in the company a few years back.[/quote]
Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the thread.[/quote]
Again, my big beef with the WWE with regards to this subject is that people 9 times out of 10 say that female wrestling sucks, and cite WWE "Divas" as the reason why. The WWE Women's division does serve a purpose, but providing people with the same sort of product as the men's division is not in the mission statement. It's like if people said that girls can't box, because they saw foxy boxing at a club once. Layla Ali would probably take issue with that. So would Muhammad Ali, I'd wager.
And for the record, do not count me as a person who hates anything with the letters WWE involved. I DO enjoy watching WWE material every now and again. I just don't like seeing a bunch of playboy cover-girls in such a position of influence representing women's wrestling to most of the world.
The WWE needs to start training the "divas" to wrestle like the men again. Even though that's not necessarily a good thing; par ejemplo: Chyna and April Hunter were both trained by Killer Kowalski (and both are pretty decent technical brawlers, with some hint of aeriality to both sets...though still not even close to Hunter's level at any point in his WWFE career), and Joanie ended up wasting any cachet she built up after coming back to the states from NJPW while April was wasted potential from the get-go when she debuted as SCOTT STEINER'S DAMN BOOTY GIRL! Yes, she managed to build up a great cult following teaming with Slyk Wagner Brown for many years (to some decent reviews, I've heard), but how far is she NOW?
In terms of styles, for the WWE divas: - Lita did very well for herself transitioning from Lucha to Technical Heel (which allowed her to draw a little more on her Judo training) - Trish Stratus truly is the GREATEST example of building up an eye-candy fitness model with no previous fight experience to a world class mixed-skill professional wrestler. Whoever trained her alongside Lita (who did teach her a little bit) did an excellent job. Torrie Wilson WAS coming along almost as well, but the repeated stupid post-Sable angles she worked completely suppressed any skill she gained along the way. - Victoria is a great all-around heel, but I feel really sorry for the way they're burying her on-camera. What did she do to piss off Creative? Honestly! - Candice is well on her way to becoming the next Torrie, but she still has a LONG way to go before becoming the next Trish. I like the way Maria became portrayed as the women's wrestling savant, though. It worked. - Beth Phoenix is simply the blonde-and-white version of Jazz, with a more tolerable face and a few more technical moves. Nothing really wrong with that, I just figured that I may as well point out the obvious. - I miss Molly Holly. - Melina vs. Mickie James is an awesome long-term feud with a good worker versus an excellent worker, but the WWE doesn't push the Women's division enough for it to matter. Ugh. - You KNOW the diva contests are totally rigged when the actual "hottest" one (Maryse; yes, I liked Maryse) gets "voted" out in the first round. I hate WWE fans sometimes. - Cherry makes a good manager, and barring any miraculous display of wrestling moves, should stay that way, much like Sunny over 10 years ago. But the writers should clearly define whether she's actually a face, or heel like her clients Deuce Shade and Dice Domino.
And that's my 10 cents. Cuz 10 cents US is now really worth about 2 now.
[quote][cite] fullMETAL:[/cite]T - Trish Stratus truly is the GREATEST example of building up an eye-candy fitness model with no previous fight experience to a world class mixed-skill professional wrestler. Whoever trained her alongside Lita (who did teach her a little bit) did an excellent job. [/quote]
[quote][cite] InTheZone:[/cite][quote][cite] valdik:[/cite][quote][cite] marlasinger:[/cite]The WWE should really just put on an hour-long soap opera. Then they could move their 'talent' and 'superstars' over there and leave RAW and Smackdown to, you know, wrestling.
I'm not sure why they started a female wrestling division (post-whatshername, uh, Sunny). If they wanted a calender they should have just hired models, not a bunch of models and a couple of actual female wrestlers, who are not allowed to actually wrestle or do what they were hired to do. Or be credible. Hiring a female wrestler to be the punchline to every lecherous old man joke is just cruel.[/quote] Good point very good point.WWE stoped actually being a wrestling company a long damn time ago and that sucks.But looking at their "tallent" I can understand why no actuall wrestling is shown in their shows all 3 of them[/quote]
What a load. Sure WWE isn't non-stop, pure technical wrestling, but people like yourself rambling to the other extreme - that they have NO wrestling - is just as poor. Get off the high horse, it's pretty damn obvious that they HAVE wrestling. What a ridiculous thing to say, even if it's exaggeration - which it doesn't even seem to be. The whole gist of WWE still revolves around WRESTLING for TITLES, and it's viewpoints like that one above which make me frustrated when it comes to people acting smark-ey.[/quote] Ok you know what I agree with you there is wrestling in WWE and what I said was too much.What I meant was WWE's main event talent are not all that good.Have you seen the angle interview(one of many) in which he repeats times and times,again and again that guys like batista and Cena aren't good wrestlers.What I meant was WWE has some tallent but I think at least that this tallent isn't used the way the should
The Batista/Cena argument is really "cliche smark", though. Just because a guy isn't a technical wizard, that makes them a bad wrestler? I think if you're looking for textbook 'wrestling,' rather than 'entertainment wrestlers,' then you're looking in the wrong place to begin with. That's ROH, not WWE. It's like trying to measure time with a ruler; WWE isn't technical wrestling showcasing. It's entertainment wrestling. Cena and Batista get the crowd going, and it's not like they only have 4 moves each (contrary to popular smark belief). Both men get a rousing reception everytime they come out - positive or negative - and I think that blows away the argument that they 'aren't used right.'
Did The Rock wrestle on the mat for 20 minutes a match? Is he a good wrestler?
Hell, I'd say Cena is the most well-marketed wrestler we've seen in decades. Half the audience pays to see him win, the other half pays to see him lose. Everybody is passionate one way or the other, within the WWE's audience. How can you 'use' a wrestler better than that? Making money from both sides of the market?
It's fair enough to have an opinion, I'm all for that, but opinions welcome debates. I'm just testing my opinion by putting it in the ring with yours.
Tonzophunn: Awesome. Finlay needs to train the women again.
InTheZone: While The Rock may not be some shining wizard in the Technical department, you've gotta admit that the majority of his best matches were against the technically-inclined like Benoit back in 2000 and even formerly technical, like Austin and Triple H. Aw hell, I'll even go so far as to say that he had good-to-great-to-epic matches against just about everybody he's faced, even Cousin 'kishi back in WM13 and even with Orton at WM20 (but I'll admit, it took Rock, Foley, Batista, AND Flair to make this Orton match look good back then).
[quote][cite] Tonzophunn:[/cite][quote][cite] fullMETAL:[/cite]T - Trish Stratus truly is the GREATEST example of building up an eye-candy fitness model with no previous fight experience to a world class mixed-skill professional wrestler. Whoever trained her alongside Lita (who did teach her a little bit) did an excellent job. [/quote]
Finlay.[/quote]
Malenko as well. He even wrestled her on tv a few times.
InTheZone I like enterteinment wrestling hell I cheer for some of the wrestlers once in a while but to have a good match you can't have both wrestlers wrestling the same damn way.You say Cena usses more than four moves that's not true.In almost every single match he's got I know what he's gonna do next.Some years ago I remember J.R saying for a Rock or an Austin match "Oh my god that was an amazing manuever" when was the last time you heard J.R say that for Cena?Answer me that.
A large portion of my lack of interest in wrestling is the current crop of Main Eventers...
Cena has a lot more talent than he is allowed to use (His early matches prior to adopting the wigger gimmick showed some decent technical skills)
Unfortunately that is pretty much the WWE style now days.
I can now get Galavision, so I might start grabbing some Lucha Libre ( I had meant to record it this afternoon, but was watching a movie instead), and I've watched a couple AWA shows on ESPN classics. TNA might get some attention soon too.
[quote][cite] valdik:[/cite]InTheZone I like enterteinment wrestling hell I cheer for some of the wrestlers once in a while but to have a good match you can't have both wrestlers wrestling the same damn way.You say Cena usses more than four moves that's not true.In almost every single match he's got I know what he's gonna do next.Some years ago I remember J.R saying for a Rock or an Austin match "Oh my god that was an amazing manuever" when was the last time you heard J.R say that for Cena?Answer me that.[/quote]
Pretty sure J.R reach an orgasmic climax when Cena F-U'ed Edge from the top of a ladder through two tables. He also gets pretty excited everytime Cena hits that flip-over facebuster. And since when is J.R a measuring stick for anything? This guy gets excited when Snitsky fumbles around the ring. Enough said.
There are 7 moves I came up with in the space of about 10 seconds. Again, another ridiculous statement which just isn't true. 4 moves? 7>4, and that's in 10 seconds.
Your other point makes no sense, either. Since when do Cena and Batista always face people with the same style as them? HBK vs. Cena, did they share the same style? Batista vs. Rey Mysterio, did they share the same style? I either don't understand what your point implied, or it genuinely was that feeble.
As for knowing what Cena will do next? Congratulations. I can watch a match with HHH, Jeff Hardy, HBK, JBL, Randy Orton, anybody and I too know what moves they are going to use. They're called signature moves, and they happen in succession because that's what (the majority) of the crowd likes. That's fundamental wrestling psychology.
Alright.You like Cena let's leave it at that. But you don't understand what I mean I don't like knowing what's going to happen in a match I don't like knowing that in some point the bigger guy is going to hit his finisher.I addmit Cena has some good matches and my point was even if he has a lot of tallent I can't see that in WWE television. What I meant was every time WWE does wrestling they don't do it for the fans of wrestling they do it for the fans of the wrestlers. And the only time that you'll see an exsitting match on WWE is on a major PPV
And you cry that Cena's got more than one move.Of course he does but that wasn't my point in the first place.My point was a rarelly see him improvise and use moves that are not in his style.He does it but rarelly. That doesn't go only for him and I don't mean it's his fault it's WWE's fault that don't let the guy do something else.
That's where you're wrong. I wouldn't even say I'm a fan of John Cena. Some weeks I tolerate him, some weeks I can't stand him and I leave the room. That's his personality though, nothing to do with his wrestling ability. You can't categorize fans that easily; I saw my first episode of TNA last night in fact, and was not impressed. How many damn promos do they need? THIS is supposed to be the 'wrestling' alternative to the WWE? Point being, wrestling fans aren't either TNA-loving/Cena-hating or the alternative. There's a continuum, and grey areas, and good luck to you trying to pin me in one extreme. Not even I can do that at the best of times.
No, your point WAS in fact that he did not have more than 4 moves. If you don't mean a statement, then don't type it, and I won't need to shoot it down. Simple as that. Also, I never 'cried' anything, and that just makes you look pretty foolish here if you can't handle some intelligent debate without resorting to making it personal.
Did you see HBK vs. Shelton Benjamin on RAW in that gold rush tournament? That was an exciting match. 'Taker vs. Big Show and Brock Lesnar in a handicap match on Smackdown in 2003? That was one of my favourite matches of all time. HBK vs. Cena, the near-hour-long encounter on RAW late last year? Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle on Smackdown, one hour iron man match? Those were damn riveting matches, all on Smackdown or RAW.
Yes it was interesting in 2003 it's rarelly interesting now.And I don't care about the promos they do on TNA it's still better wrestling to me than in WWE Cena does have four moves that's all he does in ring . He has moves that he doesn't use yes maybe.But he always comes out does the spining thing the 5 knuckle ruckle and then F-U and 1-2-3 oh come on you can't tell me that's "interesting".And as I said he does do good matches but very rarelly are they interesting to me.And all the points I make were from my point of view I never said that everyone hates or loves Cena. Can you actually tell me that Cena's more tallanted than the guys in TNA. I like the new guy Creed on TNA better than I like Cena and I've only seen him wrestle once.
[quote][cite] valdik:[/cite]Yes it was interesting in 2003 it's rarelly interesting now.And I don't care about the promos they do on TNA it's still better wrestling to me than in WWE Cena does have four moves that's all he does in ring . He has moves that he doesn't use yes maybe.But he always comes out does the spining thing the 5 knuckle ruckle and then F-U and 1-2-3 oh come on you can't tell me that's "interesting".And as I said he does do good matches but very rarelly are they interesting to me.And all the points I make were from my point of view I never said that everyone hates or loves Cena. Can you actually tell me that Cena's more tallanted than the guys in TNA. I like the new guy Creed on TNA better than I like Cena and I've only seen him wrestle once.[/quote]
That boring Shawn Michaels, he always comes out, does the scoop slam, elbow drop, sweet chin music then 1-2-3 "oh come on" that's not interesting. Matt Hardy does the clothesline/bulldog, the side effect and then the twist of fate. More often that not, that's wrestling.
I believe I already disproved the statement that Cena only has 4 moves. Repeating that doesn't change what is testable fact.
What does TNA have to do with anything? You brought it up to try and align me as some category of fan. Cena IS a better wrestler than Nash, Sting, Black Reign, Scott Steiner. But it's not like that matters, because it's going to be subjective anyway. WWE has some wrestlers who are better than some of TNA's, and vice versa.
"Very rarely are they interesting to me" is a very different statement than "Cena is a bad wrestler with only 4 moves. Period."
When did I say "Cena's a bad wrestler.Period" I said I can't see Cena wrestling and hell no he isn't better than Sting.Cena's even worse than Steiner.And you say HBK does 3 moves.That's not true be cause everytime there's a chanse for his opponent to win. You said HBK vs Shelton Benjamin was great , yes it was be cause you didn't know who was going to win until the match ended.If it was Cena and not HBK the match would have been one sided Cena would've done his 4 moves and walk out. BTW I have a question.You don't want me to say that you're a fan of Cena or that you're are a fan of WWE well what are you a fan of?Lucha Wrestling(which rulllz btw),NWA , NJPW what?
As someone who'll regularly watch both shows (WWE and TNA) I can't really see the 'better talent' that I hear from most solo TNA fans. Both companies have a nice group of talented wrestlers, and as much as you can knock Cena, he sells tickets which is entirely the point of your main event star. If you're comparing main eventers, you've got Cena, Orton, HBK and HHH against Angle, Sting, Christian and I suppose Joe (although that balls been dropped far too many times now). I'd say thats fairly comparable. In terms of straight up wrestling Cena's probably the weakest of the 8, no question, but since WWE doesn't wrestle the 'big indy' style of TNA he's largely protected by his opponents and therefore most of his PPV matches still come out brilliant. As far as actually drawing a crowd into the story of a match, you can't go better than HBK, HHH and Sting, as much as I like Christian he hasn't quite got it at the highest level. Angles half the man he was five years ago and Joe's initial promise has been ruined by bad booking, he looks like he's going through his '300lb cruiserweight' motions these days with very little enthusiasm. Meanwhile Ortons developing into one of the best truly hated heels in years.
You criticise that WWE PPV matches are better than the TV ones?!? Thats the entire point, has been since the 80's. Build to a PPV, make the PPV amazing, sell more of the next PPV. If TNA could get their heads round it they'd sell a lot more of them, as it stands they've had around the same sales levels for the past 3 years despite the number of ex WWE stars they've signed up and hoyed at the main event scene (Angle, Cage, Booker T).
I'm actually going to finish here as I don't even feel its an argument worth making. As I said I'm a fan of both shows, and I really can't get how TNA elitist fans can be so sure they are watching a vastly better roster of talent.
[quote][cite] valdik:[/cite]When did I say "Cena's a bad wrestler.Period" I said I can't see Cena wrestling and hell no he isn't better than Sting.Cena's even worse than Steiner.And you say HBK does 3 moves.That's not true be cause everytime there's a chanse for his opponent to win. You said HBK vs Shelton Benjamin was great , yes it was be cause you didn't know who was going to win until the match ended.If it was Cena and not HBK the match would have been one sided Cena would've done his 4 moves and walk out. BTW I have a question.You don't want me to say that you're a fan of Cena or that you're are a fan of WWE well what are you a fan of?Lucha Wrestling(which rulllz btw),NWA , NJPW what?[/quote]
I'm a fan of WRESTLING. Like I said before, not everyone can be classified into some category of fan-dom, I enjoy bits and pieces from different promotions from different time periods and locations. Wrestling for me is a buffet, not a marriage. There's no need for monogomy, and those fans that think there is are missing out.
"batista and Cena aren't good wrestlers." Sure, you were quoting Angle, but you were supporting it. There's your quote.
HBK vs. Cena; there was a Cena match that didn't have 4 moves then finish. It went an hour, and Shawn won. Cena vs. RVD is another example. Cena vs. HHH. Cena lost in the triple threat at Wrestlemania. Cena vs. Orton wasn't predictable. I could list matches for ever, but if you don't want to listen to / aren't aware of these FACTS, there's no point.
I watched Sting wrestle on TNA recently, the tag with Nash against the Dudleyz, and HE did much closer to 4 moves than Cena has in any match.
I'm not a huge Cena flag-waver; I just think it's silly how anti-Cena fans start making up any old comment, and hoping it flies just because that particular bandwagon happens to be in town. Such as "Cena isn't a good wrestler," "Cena's matches are always the same and he always wins," or "Cena only has 4 moves."
YSTitans: Your post gave me dejavu. Read the posts above yours, and replace "Steiner" with "Sting."
I'm not really an anti-Cena fan I actually liked the guy at one point but when he made his 1 year title reign I got bored.And Sting is pretty old so I get you say he's got 4 moves as well.Also I watched the wrestlemania matches of Cena except WM 22 and I think that he was more energetic before more enthusiasm in his moves now some of them look like done just cause he was told so.
They come up with a routine, a chemistry, a game plan and go with it. Over and over again. It used to be they'd be able to have the exact same match night after night.
That's still true, to a certain extent. Every single tag team match that happens today pretty much follows the same formula. Face 1 gets beaten up for a while, makes the hot tag and Face 2 cleans house. Then one team wins. Most cage matches follow an exact formula, too, though there's some change.
A signature move is like a catch phrase. Eventually all the performer has to do is repeat the same catch phrase over and over, without trying anything new. Some people get annoyed with it, but it works.
I saw Sting's tag match on TNA the other night too and yeah he didn't do alot of moves but give the guy a break he's 49 years old and at the end of his career. John Cena is 30 and if we were to compare the two at the age of 30 their is no question that Sting is a much better wrestler than Cena.
Women are eye candy! There is a wrestling fed for girls wrestling naked and big wrestling women are less popular than men wrestlers. Those are facts. That's all I wanted to imply. There might be some good wrestlers around the world - that's great! But that doesn't change the fact that GIRLS WRESTLERS ARE EYE CANDY! Girls wrestling is eye candy. 80% of WWE's and TNA's ex women champions were all Playboy cover girls or even worse - been in porn movies. Yes you are right - there are good - GREAT women wrestlers out their proving their worth and probably better than some male wrestlers - point well taken! But most women wrestlers are just for [...] watching! That's it - girls wear different attires every match and show more body than attire - am I right? That's all I meant earlier...
Much as I see your point, I'd imagine no more than 5% of WWE or TNA champions have been in Playboy, in fact I could be wrong but I think theres only Candice Michelle who has (did Sable have it pre 2000? Although then we're talking WWF, and then the percentage drops ever further unless Moolah ever did Playboy. Shudder) and she's improved in leaps and bounds inring over the last two years to justify it. Porn movies?
Secondly, they still wear more than most male wrestlers, surely to a fairly large audience male wrestlers are also eye candy?