I just wanted to open a thread where people can let any problems they have with the game be known. The point of this thread is to make dissenting opinions welcome. That means that this thread should not be deleted and possibly even stickied. I would very much appreciate if this thread was not a place where PWX should be defended. Too many times have I seen people loose all hope in the game because they don't agree with the fan base or crew and have not been made welcome. If you want to discuss issues with the game or its development, great. However, please do not take this thread as an opportunity to start an argument. If someone has a problem with PWX and you have a problem with that, start your own damn thread. If you have an intelligent and productive counter point, please post it here POLITELY.
So, just to start off this thing heres a few small points.
1. Why in the hell does the hammer lock look so fucking good? I really do not think levels should be worked on anymore for a long while.
2. Not enough crew on this official board. You ask questions of the week but do not give enough information and interaction. Rather than making a collective educated decision on what to do based on the most reasonable analysis of the situation decisions are seemingly being made via popularity contest.
Just as a side note I think fan/crew interaction is on the up lately, as is intelligent discussion on the boards, but I would really like to see this get stickied so that your welcoming people who don't worship PWX. People are going to have opinions you all don't want to hear, maybe this way we can at least make something productive from that and welcome people with those opinions to the project rather than just letting them be out there doing no good for the game.
[quote][cite] dratsab:[/cite]1. Faces suck as discussed earlier 2. Lack of Ryan Werra thus far[/quote]
This Werra fellow had better be heel if included, because I'm sick of hearing his name already.
-Hair textures specifically could use a bit of work. They seem painted on, and if given more structure and shape in themselves would go a fair way in making the models look better.
-Clothing/masks/elbow pads/fabrics would be improved if they could be given more dimension in themselves too... the 'painting on' of textures is a little pet peeve, and it might be unrealistic to want this addressed - however, I still felt it necessary to post as a thought.
-As an international (Australian) user, I'd suggest maybe not having the game so central to Canada; the arenas that seem specifically for Canada could be expanded to include Japanese, American, or any location of arena.
-I might suggest perhaps shrinking the size of the PWX logo on the ring floor... it seems like it may get a little distracting in taking up that much room. This could just be me, however, and obviously isn't a huge concern.
Great idea in making this thread; it by no means we dislike the game, but is a great avenue for realistic posting of constructive criticism, even if it's just thoughts on the table.
I, for one, would like to hear about some things that are not mentioned very often. I guess this ties into PD's talk about limited fan/crew interaction.
How is the progress coming on the CAW mode? Specifically the user interface. Is it being worked on at all, is there even a user interface designed?
I know it is not going to be a part of Uprising (My biggest disappointment), but how far along is it in terms of being able to be used? The lack of information on this has been a major disappointment.
Again, I'm not talking about the 'how many moves are animated' aspect, but the how well can you create such and so wrestler, and what type of process we are looking at.
Forget I mentioned it. I can just overlook anything with his name in it, I suppose.
[quote][cite] PWX_eric:[/cite]– Not to pick on anyone in particular, but no linking to personal projects anymore.
– Stay on topic, within reason. This is a web site about Pro Wrestling X. All other discussions, find another board. Things can just deteriorate too quickly with other topics. [/quote]
1. Why in the hell does the hammer lock look so fucking good? I really do not think levels should be worked on anymore for a long while.
2. Not enough crew on this official board. You ask questions of the week but do not give enough information and interaction. Rather than making a collective educated decision on what to do based on the most reasonable analysis of the situation decisions are seemingly being made via popularity contest. [/quote]
1. Well, Darrell works on it every chance he gets in between tasks. And since we decided to focus on only one venue for Uprising it's been getting a lot of polish in the last ten months. Also, we had an offer from an art intern to contribute some props. We liked what he offered (Skytrain, fans, etc.) so we threw them in the level. The level itself was our sandbox for testing everything from lighting, normal mapping, transparency, etc. so every time we had to test something new we used the Hammerlock. As a result, it shore looks purdy.
2. I like to keep the rest of the crew on task and as the deadline is tight already I'd prefer they spent their time working hard on Uprising. For better or worse at this point, I tend to be the go-to guy for fan interaction and it gets funneled through me.
A lot of the feedback on character detail has been well heeded and Darrell is your biggest advocate on that front. He has insisted that after Uprising we spend more time on improving character form, hair, faces, and clothing. He's definitely on your side in that respect.
Monitor, we got CAW as far as prototyping it. We proved that textures could be swapped in engine and move animations assigned to move slots with a basic interface. If we weren't making a PC game we'd be mighty worried about excluding the CAW in first release but we're at least partly comforted by the fact that modders will do a hell of a lot more with Photoshop and textures templated than even the most robust CAW could produce. We have character models completed for all common body types (male and female) and they are modeled in a way that allows textures to be used across all body types with minimum stretching.
My personal criticisms so far? Well you'll see what I mean when you see gameplay footage but (bugs aside) what I want to see more improvement on are:
1. Running animations (in ring and on apron) look quite goofy. 2. Default idle pose look way too hunched over. Fine for men, but the females look downright gimpy in idle. Specific idle and walk animations need to be redone just for females. 3. Grapple system. Works fine when opponent is stationary (ex. in turnbuckle) but is too clunky for regular standing grapples. We need to redesign it for Uprising in my opinion. 4. All characters modeled without photo reference look like inbred relatives of each other. Darrell said we could get much better results using photo reference for faces instead of concept art and he was right. We did a new character and took photos of someone to model a face from. Much much better looking. 5. No freakin' rope animations yet.
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]Awesome thread. We did a new character and took photos of someone to model a face from. Much much better looking. [/quote]
Must have been my face then. Mwahahaha.
Excellent thread though, now any chance of a Screenshot Saturday seeing as its now Monday? Or do we have something special coming up?
I'm sure I'll be able to mod the textures and such, as will others...and I can't wait for the full version to really be able to get in there and go with my own created characters.
I know you are extremely busy, and you try to update us each week as best you can in the newsletter. But just spending 15 minutes a day looking at the forums and posting something really goes a long way.
I could see why Darrel would want human faces for reference. Still, I think you should not let anyone do anything on arenas till some other stuff gets done.
Not really, just time and resources. We've got a bug list a mile long and rope interaction just always seems to fall below the priority line. But then, if we knew a programmer with some spare time on his hands willing to lend a hand... ;-)
I think there needs to be an overhaul in the game's physics overall. Animations just seems slow, clunky, seem to lack any impact. Maybe I've just been playing Fire Pro Returns too much lately but Dave's comment about the moves looking too worked is right. The whiplash from a clothesline on a poor bastard's neck should be able to be felt without sound. And the textures in my opinion need work. Now, I'm not necessarily pointing the finger at PWX but I just feel that far too many PC developers push muddy and just lackluster textures out the door, while relying on the mod community to solve their problems. Now, I personally as a gamer, am one to not care how much I spend on a game, if I paid money for it expect quality. I hate the saying, "You get what you pay for." I'm more for another saying, "I paid good money for that, damn it".
Truth be told, the faces do look like crap. I can appreciate gameplay over graphics, but who are we kidding here? I understand the characters look low-poly because they are but we have to the realistic. We are competing with the Smackdowns, the TNAs, and now the Fire Pros out there. Fire Pro US got by on three things:
A massive and guaranteed install base, and a fanbase in itself equally as rabid, of which many members including our beloved and myself are apart of. We don't have that. PC gaming is and has been on life support since the NES blew up. We know that.
Pissed of North American wrestling gamers... sound familiar? Yeah, that's your market.
Oh not to mention, with total unbiasedness, as I'm probably the only one willing to say it. I think the potential XBLA deal is a big mistake. As much as I want to say take whatever you can get, I can't. I think non-exclusivity is the biggest and hottest thing right now. Yeah, start off as PC-only but don't lock yourselves away.
I guess what I'm saying is, from what I've seen animations and character models need a serious reboot.
And please don't take this as ripping the company to shreds because truth is Dave inspires me. Seriously. I mean, yeah, we got Bioware (well, they've been swallowed into the abyss now, though) and Silicon Knights, and a few other low-key Canadian studios keeping it independent but I'd NEVER thought you could be game designer and have a company in Canada, until met Dave.
I mean, growing up I knew I wanted to make games for a living and the only things I knew about gaming really was the US (LA specifically) or Japan. And then I'd that some of the best games of the last few years were Canadian-made. Hell, a lot of them right at home with me in Toronto.
But sob story short, I really hope it gets tweaked and tweaked and tweaked until it can't anymore because I just don't know some days.
As far as I see it, Pro Wrestling X is competing with other PC wrestling games, of which there are none. Which leaves it in a pretty good position from that viewpoint.
There are problems, obviously. Fire Pro Returns sold, what, barely anything? It's got a bargain-basement price, loads of content and a respected lineage. It doesn't really add up to anything, considering it's 2D and American gamers don't care much for 2D games on anything other than a handheld console, so it's not really a perfect comparison to PWX.
There's no endorsement. Hogan's face alone was enough to sell Legends of Wrestling, even though noone wanted it after they'd bought it anyways. But, again, the only reason to have a big name on the cover is to sell to a specific demographic, such as WWE fans, TNA fans, old-school WWF fans, what-have-you. To market a game to the general wrestling/wrestling game public is a different dance.
And of course you have the fans. God love them, but they want exactly what they specifically want, with no deviation from their vision or it's an utter betrayal of everything they hold dear. "I want the animations to have impact but they can't have TOO much an impact because it doesn't look like a worked match otherwise." "I want this specific move in there and if you don't provide it I won't buy the game." "The animations need to have impact and I won't care unless you spend weeks on one variation of a body slam, even though I also told you to work on the textures because that concrete in that one screenshot you slapped onto the website five minutes ago doesn't FEEL like concrete to me." "I can't believe you're selling out to a larger company, even though I've been complaining about the graphics and you probably don't have enough resources to get it done alone."
All I'm hoping for is what they've said they want to deliver: No Mercy with better graphics and customization options. Really, the best way to get the wrestling game you want is to turn to a small, dedicated little company that's working on one for the PC, because it's the only way for such a game to deliver on all accounts. Want better textures? They can improve them down the line. Want better animations? They can add them in later. And they don't have to disappear for a year and a half to come out with a sequel in order to do so.
It's not going to be a completed project when it's released, and that's what you should be expecting. They're not going to be able to refine every aspect of the game before they release it and that's a good thing. They don't need to. All they need to do is sell enough copies to keep themselves alive and release updates, and over time everything you want to be in the game and refined will be.
Uh... with the animations thing, I pretty much echoed what Dave was saying and took my own spin on about it physics or whatnot... How does that justify even a passing shot at me when everyone else was putting in their own two cents?
[quote][cite] PWX_Dave:[/cite]Marla, that has got to be one of my favorite posts. Sums up the reality of the situation quite nicely! Mind if I post it in the newsletter tomorrow?[/quote]