So I was talkin with my wrasslin friend about my dream version of a hell in a cell match. First, the cell would be a big cube, made of the elimination chamber steel and chains. The ring would be suspended in the center of the cube by chains, allowing a bit of give so that it wobbles when wrestlers move around a lot.
The apron would be about 6 feet from the cage walls, and it'd be about a 10 foot drop from the top rope to the floor, which would be covered from corner to corner in thumbtacks. two opposite corner posts are higher than normal, and have pegs to allow a wrestler to climb them toward the ceiling.
Why would they climb to the ceiling? Because the only way in or out is a 4' by 4' opening in the center of the ceiling. They lower in via a rope in the begining, and must escape to win.
Personally, I love a little ultraviolence every now and then but the first such match type to make it into PWX will be a simple ring with barbed wire ropes. From there we'll add the corner light tubes a' la Fire Pro. We plan to stop there and leave death matches on the side while we tackle a cage match and all of it's variations. We already have the barbed wire and light tube ring ready for the game because a publisher asked for a hardcore demo a few months ago but we don't want to just throw it into PWX as an afterthought. It would require a good deal of new animations, better particle effects, and a much better blood system than we have now.
I'm a blood and FMW and BJW-mark, but that idea got Rated V for Vince Russo. NEEDZ SUMFIN ON A POEL!!!!!!! N WUT ABUT SOME CRAZY ANIAML SHIAT LIEK CROCODILES N FLESH EATING ANTS N LOBSTERS N OCTOPUSSES N MAYBI SUM ZOMBIES YAY TAT WOULD B C00L!!!!!!!!! Really, If PWX _needs_ to have deathmatch stuff, then an FMW-Exploding NRBW Timebomb Deathmatch and a barefooting thumbtack-deathmatch and of course, 100 (200/300) lighttubes. That's anything I really want at the moment, mostly the barefooting tacks deathmatch.
A barbed wire ropes match would be fine with me. But really, as long as you can do something like a Five Star Frog Splash off of a balcony onto a guy laying on a table I will be happy. Of course, even just the Five Star off of a balcony onto a guy laying on the mat or ground is fine too :D
Of course it should be well enforced so it doesn't look flimsy. The Balcony is all around the cage and its there just so they can fight there and possibly fall off or do flying moves from. Barbed wire so they cant escape. And call it a prison match. Because the balcony resembles the second floor in a prison. I guess it needs to be as big as a Hell in a Cell without a roof.
How about a pirate ship match, we fight on a pirate ship, but it's a royal rumble / ladder (mast) match. You have to fight your way up to the belt thats hanging on the top of the mast, but if someone throws you in the water and a shark eats you, you are eliminated.
How about the structure from the move Ready to Rumble movie - the final match in the cage with the three balconies.You have to reach the final balcony and get the title.That would own for real!
[quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]How about the structure from the move Ready to Rumble movie - the final match in the cage with the three balconies.You have to reach the final balcony and get the title.That would own for real![/quote]
We all want that match, it has been discussed forever. If PWX can be the first game to do that (obviously not PWX 1, but maybe PWX 2) that would be awesome.
Even though I don't agree that these matches are needed in wrestling, surely you'd have to agree that these matches shouldn't really be high priority for PWX at first? The basic matches, such as your tag team matches, or battle royal, royal rumble, etc. surely deserve preference.
[quote][cite] InTheZone:[/cite]Even though I don't agree that these matches are needed in wrestling, surely you'd have to agree that these matches shouldn't really be high priority for PWX at first? The basic matches, such as your tag team matches, or battle royal, royal rumble, etc. surely deserve preference.[/quote]
No, we must ignore the fact that we need to walk before we can run. I want a barbed wire dildo on a pole with Judy Bagwell as well as exploding fans match and I want it NOW. I also want you to accept any animation I make with some freeware program because I made it and I'm awesome.
I agree with you one hundred percent InTheZone. Im enjoying this thread.
Once PWX does get to the violent deathmatch stuff, I think they need to make levels where using the hardcore elements is fairly difficult. That way you could get good wrestling throughout the match, it would make pulling of gory spots challenging and exiting, and it would make the gory sots themselves a big deal when they happened.
I certainly didn't intend to suggest this should be in PWX anytime soon, it's just something I'd love to see in any format one day ;) I think these sorts of matches need to be rare in order to maintain their appeal (WWE has been way over-using ladders lately for example, so they're less impressive), so they should never be the focus of any wrestling game, but once the important stuff is locked down, I definately like to see rediculous brutal things being added ;) I always thought a wrestling game needs a create a gimmick mode that lets you set up your own match types using toggleable rules too, to best use features like this :)
[quote][cite] PunkDraco:[/cite]Once PWX does get to the violent deathmatch stuff, I think they need to make levels where using the hardcore elements is fairly difficult. That way you could get good wrestling throughout the match, it would make pulling of gory spots challenging and exiting, and it would make the gory sots themselves a big deal when they happened.[/quote]
Very true. The best hardcore matches are those when big spots are used in good time and sparingly, with solid wrestling between.
[quote][cite] smblion:[/cite]I certainly didn't intend to suggest this should be in PWX anytime soon, it's just something I'd love to see in any format one day ;) I think these sorts of matches need to be rare in order to maintain their appeal (WWE has been way over-using ladders lately for example, so they're less impressive), so they should never be the focus of any wrestling game, but once the important stuff is locked down, I definately like to see rediculous brutal things being added ;) I always thought a wrestling game needs a create a gimmick mode that lets you set up your own match types using toggleable rules too, to best use features like this :)[/quote]
Create-A-Gimmick would certainly be an interesting mode, but it sounds like it would be difficult programming-wise. If you had contradicting elements of a match - which I'm sure would arise - but perhaps this is just me. I'd definately enjoy this mode, even though I'm not big on deathmatches; simple matches could also be made, such as Triple Threat Ironman. If the mode was at all possible, and it was the time to introduce it, I'd be in favour of it, no matter how simple it is.
[quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]Why,Monitor?Wouldn't it be kewl as heaven?[/quote]
Have you ever really WATCHED any of the matches that use those types of cages? (Stacked cages) They've never really entertained me, so I can live without them. Heck, I put these in the same category as a scaffold match. Cool idea, boring in execution 9 times out of 10.
I'm not a big fan of brutal matches just for the sake of brutality. I can get into a match like that every once in awhile, but I'd MUCH rather have a real good basic match running before I even though about adding this type of thing.
[quote][cite] Monitor:[/cite][quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]Why,Monitor?Wouldn't it be kewl as heaven?[/quote]
Have you ever really WATCHED any of the matches that use those types of cages? (Stacked cages) They've never really entertained me, so I can live without them. Heck, I put these in the same category as a scaffold match. Cool idea, boring in execution 9 times out of 10.
I'm not a big fan of brutal matches just for the sake of brutality. I can get into a match like that every once in awhile, but I'd MUCH rather have a real good basic match running before I even though about adding this type of thing.[/quote]
This echoes my sentiments exactly. I've never watched a crazily brutal triple-decker-cage-shark-infested match, and I don't intend to, because it seems way too cheap and gimmicky.
I like having a good ol street fight, and brawl. Cage matches in general never do it all that much for me. Frankly i'd rather have a variety of hardcore/deathmatch before a cage.
For me its;
Ladder Barbed Wire Rope TLC (so just a variation of ladder) Street Fight Tai-Pei
Luckily the last one can be modified in about 10 seconds by making blood flow on any punch and putting a texture of glue + glas on tape on fists.
[quote][cite] spudz:[/cite]Why,Monitor?Wouldn't it be kewl as heaven?[/quote] I've never been to heaven but I've heard it sucks as hell :D But I think the 3cages match has been done on WCW and I doubt it ain't a trademark
I saw a 200 light tube deathmatch that had scaffolding, it was broken into 3 parts on Youtube, and was a BJW production. I forget who was in it, and I can't find the video again sadly, but this was one of the best matches I've ever watched, and not just because it was full of broken glass.
Just being hardcore doesn't make a match suck. The problem with a lot of the matches you guys are thinking of, I think, is that they often come from promotions like CZW. The problem is twofold, first, the quality of the workers is not up to par with TNA and WWE, that's partly why they have to resort to non-stop brutality to keep people interested, and second, promotions like CZW pride themselves on their over-the-top garbage wrestling. You can't expect to get high quality mat wrestling out of groups like that, because they had no intention on delivering it in the first place :)
But you take one of these over the top matches, like an Elminination Chamber, and put 6 of the best wrestlers in the world in, and you're almost guaranteed to have an incredible match, gory or not!
Dave, I know you guys tried the War Games style double ring and it didn't work out for a number of reasons. I know it's out of the question for the first PWX, but how likely is it that we'll see it in a future PWX?
[quote][cite] dratsab:[/cite]"he quality of the workers is not up to par with TNA"
Lolz?[/quote]
I'm not counting guys like Pacman Jones! :) I'm talking about like, kurt angle, christian, samoa joe, aj styles, christopher daniels, etc even ROH has some great talent..
I know some good guys have come from CZW and other such promotions, but when they get good they leave for Japan, or ROH/TNA/WWE it seems. So you're left with guys like Necro Butcher.. "Rawr, I can't wrestle, but I'll cut the crap out of my body on camera!"
[quote][cite] smblion:[/cite][quote][cite] dratsab:[/cite]"he quality of the workers is not up to par with TNA"
Lolz?[/quote]
I'm not counting guys like Pacman Jones! :) I'm talking about like, kurt angle, christian, samoa joe, aj styles, christopher daniels, etc even ROH has some great talent..
I know some good guys have come from CZW and other such promotions, but when they get good they leave for Japan, or ROH/TNA/WWE it seems. So you're left with guys like Necro Butcher.. "Rawr, I can't wrestle, but I'll cut the crap out of my body on camera!"[/quote]
I'd put Necro over Christian, Styles and most other TNA-workers at any time. AJ is such an overrated piece a fuck, same for Christian, and the rest of the roster is filled with ex-WWE-guys and spotmonkeys that can do 666 highflying moves in maybe 2 minutes and have no idea about ring psychologie. And what does CZW have? A bunch of great wrestlers like Ruckus, Sabian, Drake Younger, SeXXXy Eddie, Cheech&Cloudy, Brain Damage, Hallowicked, Tobey Klein, Justice Pain, Messiah, Derek Frazier, Ricky Reyes, Scotty Vortekz, Nick Gage, Excalibur, Danny Havoc, Nate Hatred, Beef Wellington, Adam Flash, Chris Bishop, Bryce Reemsburg, Quack and of course Necro and so many others. And you call TNA better than that promotion? CZW exists now since 1999, and I bet TNA won't live longer. And for Necro can't wrestling: He can, there's just no need to do so. Or what do most want to see if they watch a deathmatch? A big bunch of blood, crazy brawls and they don't expect any wrestling, so he doesn't. If he get's booked in normal matches (which doesn't happen often), he wrestles pretty good, liek most brawlers/stiff bastards do. Of course, there are a lot of "stiff kicks" and "punches that would even knock out Chuck Norris" which belong more in a shoot fight then in a wrestling match, but Ricky Reyes, Ricky Romero, Low Ki, Chris Hero and so many others do pretty much the same and nobody critisizes those that they "can't wrestle". Check out some of Necro's stuff at Big Japan (mostly non-violent matches, some really great stuff with Masada), Chikara and other feds. And last but not least, Necro is a charisma-bomb, filling the ring with extremely high profile - or at least more than Christian " I'm Nr. 1 Contender for the next professional gayporn" Cage or Kurt "My laughing is even more dumb then Shockmasters" Angle or "Goldust-Clone Nr. 666" Black Reign.
Necro Butcher can wrestle, and so can the rest of the CZW roster. If you think CZW is all about over the top garbage wrestling with alot of blood, you've aparently only seen tribute videos of that kind of stuff, alot of the people in CZW hace alot of talent (view list above and add J.C. Bailey). CZW has had alot of great matches with little to no blood/insane spot. The CZW roster in full of talent and if you watch the right tribute videos, you'd see that. If you only watch the tributes that showcase their ultraviolent stuff, your not going to see it but if you can find the right videos, you'll see some amzing matches that are better that the current WWE product and even beat some TNA stuff.
I think people hate on WWE just because of it's popularity, honestly right now I'd watch (and do) WWE over any other fed. ROH has some good matches, but alot of their finishes are anti-climatic. Also TNA is getting better, but they still suck.
I'm enjoying my 20 Disc History Of The 4 Horsemen compilation. I'd rather watch it than anything new that's out there right now.
Not that everything out there is bad, just that I find this stuff more fun.
I just watched a ladder match, from 1987. Only instead of JUST a ladder match it was also a barbwire ropes match.
Dusty vs Tully for $100k. It didn't have any of the amazing spots from todays ladder matches, but it told a good story and was a bloody match. Seeing Dusty dropkick a ladder is a feat you just have to see for yourself to belive it really happened.
[quote][cite] Monitor:[/cite]I'm enjoying my 20 Disc History Of The 4 Horsemen compilation. I'd rather watch it than anything new that's out there right now.
Not that everything out there is bad, just that I find this stuff more fun.
I just watched a ladder match, from 1987. Only instead of JUST a ladder match it was also a barbwire ropes match.
Dusty vs Tully for $100k. It didn't have any of the amazing spots from todays ladder matches, but it told a good story and was a bloody match. Seeing Dusty dropkick a ladder is a feat you just have to see for yourself to belive it really happened.[/quote]
I saw that match, but I'm not really a fan of old-school matches.
[quote][cite] smblion:[/cite][quote][cite] dratsab:[/cite]"he quality of the workers is not up to par with TNA"
Lolz?[/quote]
I'm not counting guys like Pacman Jones! :) I'm talking about like, kurt angle, christian, samoa joe, aj styles, christopher daniels, etc even ROH has some great talent..
I know some good guys have come from CZW and other such promotions, but when they get good they leave for Japan, or ROH/TNA/WWE it seems. So you're left with guys like Necro Butcher.. "Rawr, I can't wrestle, but I'll cut the crap out of my body on camera!"[/quote]
Necro Butcher is a better pro-wrestler than all of those dudes you mentioned. Being a pro-wrestler doesn't mean the techniques or moves that you know how to execute or anything like that. Necro gets *IT* and Kurt Angle is just a fucking mark who kills himself for nothing.
And about coming to the ring with fitness models and strippers (neither of which can wrestle very well, even after 5-10 years in the business) with dodgeball-sized funbags in order to rile up the hormone-ridden males.
[quote][cite] balooga:[/cite]If you only watch the tributes that showcase their ultraviolent stuff, your not going to see it but if you can find the right videos, you'll see some amzing matches that are better that the current WWE product and even beat some TNA stuff.[/quote]
I haven't seen lots of CZW, I did see a cage of death event (the full thing, not just the main event) and was not hugely impressed. There were some great matches, don't get me wrong, including one of the grossest ladder matches I've ever seen. But a lot of the wrestling seemed to be moving from spot to spot to me.
I'm not really looking to have a "which promotion is best" debate, so I think we can agree to disagree on our favorites :)