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    • CommentAuthorJohnnyR
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    Assuming the pure brilliance of my timing and transition systems are being ignored because PWX has an engine in place and cant spend the time or money to alter how about a new idea. I think full attributes for each individual move would add alot to gameplay. Combined with wrestler attributes, I think move attributes would contribute greatly to adding realism to a wrestling game. The more variable interplay the better.

    There are alot of occurences in matches that don't exactly coincide with the mechanics of a fight if wrestling were real. For instance only certain moves have a legitimate ability to score a pinfall after hitting them(no matter how beat up an opponent may be, a simple strike wont end a match). Also certain finishers for wrestlers may have effects that dont exactly coincide with wrestler abilities(A wrestler with the Heart Punch as a finish may not be considered a good overall puncher/striker).

    Here are some categories I would have for each move on a sliding scal of 1-10 or 1-100:
    1. KO ability
    2. Pinfall ability either during or immediately after the move
    3. Stamina effect on attacker
    4. Stamina effect on defender
    5. Tap out ability
    6. Reversal ability
    7. Knockdown ability (how long/short an opponent stays on the mat after move)
    8. Knockdown strikes (how well a strike will stagger or knockdown opponent)

    Then you would have special effects categories for each move:
    1. damge effect on legs for attacker/defender(as some offensive move can take their toll on the attacker)
    2. damage effect on arms for attack/defender
    3. " " for head
    4. " " for body
    5. Stamina implications (low stamina on German Suplex w/pin, or Surf Board, figure-four ect. could result in attacker being pinned)
    6. if the move is illegal
    7. requires strength, agility, technical ability, ect.

    Anyone have any other categories to add? Im sure there are plenty more. It seems like a simple implementation to me that would add alot to game-play. You would just have a default setting for all moves and have them completely customizable if players wanted to alter them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPWX_Dave
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    Hey Johnny, sorry for appearing to ignore your other thread. I was actually replying to it earlier today when my wi-fi dropped out.

    Once again, you're way ahead of the curve. We are planning customizable attributes when CAW is completed but for the first version it will be very basic. You'll be able to flag a move in the categories of blood, KO, submit. Further down the line we want add a lot of detail to move attributes even going so far as to set closed fist strikes as illegal for those old school rules matches. Fire Pro is our inspiration in this regard (have you ever seen that doc floating around the Fire Pro community that lists the 'under the hood' specs for each move? Great reference).
    • CommentAuthorJohnnyR
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2007
     
    Ill definitely have to check out that firepro document, anyone know where I could find it?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfullMETAL
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2007
     
    "flag a move in the categories of blood, KO, submit"
    Which actually brings up an interesting set of questions concerning moves:
    1. Can any submission move be flagged to either attempt an actual submission or be a simple rest hold?
    2. Will certain submissions allow the "blood" flag to be switched on and off?
    3. How many of each flag will we get to assign to moves that don't already have them flagged?
  1.  
    www.fireproclub.com

    If it's not at least linked there, then it doesn't exist. Or it may be exclusive to GameFAQs but I doubt it as most of the FP community puts their stuff on there. One more "Flag" you forgot. Injuries. Sure damage attributes will increase the likelihood of injuries but I still say there should be flag for strategic purposes. That way if you're in tournament in Touring Mode, and you know a guy has "X Move that injuries Y" you can do your best to avoid it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007
     
    Here is the firepro Move Data list. This is the link to the version on GameFAQs.

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/927675/41246

    I think this is the document Dave is talking about.
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007
     
    That's bloody insane! Some people have A LOT of time on their hands and that's coming from someone who only works 20hours a week!
    • CommentAuthorJohnnyR
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007
     
    Thanks for the link Monitor.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007 edited
     
    No problem Johnny R.

    Krow: The guy who did that FAQ has gotten into the engine itself and passes along some pretty amazing things. Techy stuff you won't find ANYWHERE else, like how Ukemi really works, what the default skills and parameters are for the default roster.

    He even came up with a Counter Calculator program, and other such stuff.

    http://www.fireprozomg.com/index.php?topic=7.0
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007
     
    [quote][cite] Monitor:[/cite]No problem Johnny R.

    Krow: The guy who did that FAQ has gotten into the engine itself and passes along some pretty amazing things. Techy stuff you won't find ANYWHERE else, like how Ukemi really works, what the default skills and parameters are for the default roster.

    He even came up with a Counter Calculator program, and other such stuff.

    http://www.fireprozomg.com/index.php?topic=7.0[/quote]

    Fuck....Me....Wow. It's at times like this that I really realise what an utter nerd I am. And I embrace that.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2007
     
    It's just a shame he never got into the KOC series.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPWX_Dave
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2007
     
    Yup, thats the doc. I dunno, I can kind of see why he didn't get into KoC. It just lacks that goofy fun factor that helps set Fire Pro apart.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2007
     
    Yeah. I don't blame people for not getting as into KOC as they did Fire Pro, I'm just saying it would have been nice.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    Hey Krow:

    If you are still following this, here is another site you may want to check out:

    http://www31.brinkster.com/jblackhart/docs/system/
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    Sweet, is that being regularly updated? It's very interesting. Do people actually ever play FP games anymore or is it just 'interesting' to everyone now, rather than 'fun'?
    •  
      CommentAuthorPWX_Dave
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    I still play Fire Pro Returns every week or so and Fire Pro Advance about as often. Great game for a quick match. I'm thinking I'll play a lot more of the translated version just because it will be easier to navigate the deep as hell menus. Especially the edit menus.
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    That is true. I still find putting on a brilliant match on KoC2 both more satisfying and more ... well...possible! It just looks more like a match. Had some awesome matches earlier.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPWX_Dave
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    See, and I find the opposite is true for me. I play KoC2 and marvel at what they accomplished but it just doesn't have the 'fun factor' that Fire Pro does for me. But ok, I hereby promise to devote at least two full hours this week to playing KoC2 and learning to love it...
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    I just find it so fun, especially when picking two heavyweight guys (cos thats basically what its made for) and going fromlight grapples, to forearm/chop exchanges to various reversed attempts at hitting big moves to hitting a huge lariat to 10 2.9 counts and then finishing them off with a head drop of some sort (only to have the crowd rate it as a 89%er!).
    •  
      CommentAuthorPWX_Dave
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    Ahhh that could be my problem. I generally favor the quicker wrestlers and KoC2...it does not.
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2007
     
    I still have fun, quicker matches but they aren't quick compared to, i dont know, much. I like all different types of wrestling. I don't think KoC does all types well, but I think it does one type VERY well indeed. I feel FPR to be a little bit basic when playing it. Its fun to mess around with and well worth the 14-20 dollars it is gonna cost (i think) but I still find myself going back to KoC over and over again. Also, the ability to reverse wristlocks 20 times without the move being released is funny.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonitor
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2007
     
    Jason Blackheart is still working on that site...but not on any regular schedule. He's been working on it since FPZ...so it's something to check up on every onth or so to see if he has added anything.

    I'm with Dave, on the KOC, front. If I want a quick match, with quick guys, I go for Fire Pro. If I want a hard hitting heavyweight match, I'll go with KOC. It's been a pretty long time, actually, since I played KOC. Not really since I sold my JPN PS2 back in March or so.

    I still have my modded PS2, but I've been playing mainly my 360.

    Right now my modded PS2 is hooked up to the PC, so I can take videos of FPR for YouTube, to get people pumped for the English translation being released soon.
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2007
     
    I just think in terms of watching FP just looks and feels too unrealistic - and i dont mean graphically, i love the 2D look - also, compared to KoC2 each character has so few moves and - I dunno - I don't really want to diss FPR because i do not dislike it at all, I just find everything too brief, maybe too quick. Meh, FP games are good, but I much prefer creating people on it and having the odd game with friends than playing it all the time as i do with KoC.
    • CommentAuthorPunkDraco
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2007
     
    Hey Johnny R i like the idea of involving stamina on bridging pins to allow the attacker to be pinned also. Id love to see a game where Draws actually happen, albeit rarely.
    • CommentAuthorKrow
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2007
     
    [quote][cite] PunkDraco:[/cite]Hey Johnny R i like the idea of involving stamina on bridging pins to allow the attacker to be pinned also. Id love to see a game where Draws actually happen, albeit rarely.[/quote]

    I'm in agreement with that. Maybe also have it so the person on the receiving end might get his arm up. I suppose the only problem with this is that in the game you'd notice your shoulders were down due to the third person perspective and release the pin, whereas in real life you might not notice. But draws is a nice option. and not just count out and time limit draws. I'd also like for there to be alternatives to tests of strength, if they end up in the game, in the knocklelock sense. For example have the old shoulder tackle challenge or having both guys decide to both run to opposite sides of the ring and lariat each other. Basically, I want for you to include every single possibility that could happen in a wrestling match. Simple as that. I'm sure you'll do a splendid job.